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Electrical problem!

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irwinbdi
4/2/2007 1:40:59 PM
OK. Now this is very strange...

With the key in the 'on' position I can hear at least four things intermittently. The first thing is the fuel pump goes on and goes off, on and off. The second is the throttle positioner behind the throttle body starts to move in and out and the fuel injector intermittently starts shooting fuel down the throttle body, also, I hear poping from the distributor cap... What in the world is going on? I experience this every time I move the ignition switch to the 'on' position. I left the ignition switch 'on' for 10 minutes and these things continue to happen intermittently.

Is this a shorted computer? Bad ground?

HELP!
detroitmi
4/2/2007 2:10:49 PM
Before we even try to diagnose this we need to slow down a bit. The TPS (throtle position sensor) should not make any sound at all, it's only a sensor, no moving parts. (though it's possible your cruise control motor is cracking the throtle plate open for some reason).

How does the Escort run after starting?
Are you having any other troubles aside for things clicking?
Just things going on and off when the ignition is on does not indicate a problem, it could be a simple program of the computer to turn certain solenoids on and off whith the engine off.
irwinbdi
4/2/2007 3:38:45 PM
Thanks for the reply detroitmi.
 
Yes, this escort does have a cruise control. I guess it is the cruise control motor that is moving the throttle plate open and closed.
 
I can't get the escort to run. It will turn over just fine. It is getting a spark. It appears the CFI is dumping way to much fuel into the throttle body and is flooding the engine out.
 
The weird thing is...is that all of those things I mentioned in my initial post happen when the ignition key is in the 'on' position. It is my understanding that only the fuel pump should power up for a few seconds to pressurize the fuel system. Is that correct?
 
The single injector shouldn't dump fuel into the throttle body for 10-15 secs... Its just flooding everything!
 
I hear poping from the distributor cap, also.
 
All of these things are intermittent. They last any where from 2-3 secs or 30 secs. There is no distinct pattern.
 
Thanks again for you assistance!
 
Brian
goinstrong
4/2/2007 5:20:33 PM
First - try cleaning and checking the battery cables and terminals for a bad major grounding problem. Then look for a crossed wire or blown fuses. The injectors should definitely not flow fuel at least until the key is turned to start. Is the ignition switch original?
goinstrong
4/2/2007 5:21:56 PM
Way back my '88 Mustang had an ignition switch recall (that's why I asked).
irwinbdi
4/2/2007 5:47:54 PM
The battery terminals are clean and secure. The grounds look good. No blown fuses. As for the ignition switch...The car is new to me. The switch looks original.....
irwinbdi
4/3/2007 10:03:41 PM
Hi guys,
Well, here is an update:
I replaced the battery cables and one questionable fusible link. I replaced the ignition electrical switch.
Still no change... Same weirdness.
Looks like I need to get another ECM!?
Anyone else have any thoughts?????
Brian
goinstrong
4/3/2007 11:36:26 PM
It's like the computer thinks the engine is running - so it's dumping fuel and firing and doesn't know it's going nowhere. It almost sounds like a wire is crossed. I wish I were there. I could figure it out quick being there - I'm not as great at the 50 questions way of narrowing it down sometimes. But - I am persistant. If you replaced a fusible link - did it have light charring/blackness on the wire casing? and what did it connect to (if you know)? What parts tell the computer it is or it's not time to run? - that's the question. If the timing belt is off will it cycle the fuel pump wrong?--NO - it's not running or being started yet. It thinks it's in the run position at the keyswitch - That's it. What parts make it think that? Keyswitch (NOT THAT), ECM (Low suspect),  ---- Power going to the switch making it think it's in the run position - ECM, dash wires, or fuse in wrong place in fuse box - could be wire spliced/fused or burnt into harness wrongly. Definitely not an engine sensor - they mostly regulate running. Look for starter wires on wrongly (just to be sure). Maybe voltage regulator overloading ignition switch circuit - OR Starter solenoid burned shut or wires crossed -that will make it think the key is on run. Usually you can look at an ECM circuit board and see a failure if there is one - if there is another problem though it could have fried it from switching and cycling as it is- either way you can usually see. If it turns out to be bad there are two main things that can kill one. 1 - tight enclosure and high cabin temps 2 - water/coolant leakage in the mounting area
enibum
4/4/2007 4:15:36 AM
Hi Brian. I have some literature for you to read. Maybe it will help you, I hope. The injector gets it's signal to fire from the ECU in what are called pulse width signals. These signals are generated from motor rotation that is detected by sensors that monitor the rotation of the cam or the crank shaft. The faster the pulses from the sensors, the faster the signal to the injector. I am curious about the noise you are hearing from the distributor. It could be causing these pulses to be picked up by the ECU and translated into motor rotation. Therefore pulsing the injector. With the injector spraying fuel the pump has to run to keep pressure built up. Anyway, this is just a theory and I hope it helps. Here is the literature I promised you. Be sure to use the next--> button at the bottom of the page so that you can get to the next page. Good Luck.
 
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-injection3.htm
goinstrong
4/4/2007 3:12:51 PM
A short picked up by the sensor. That's a good idea. Have you ever had an antifreeze spill or leak? It can invisibly (except at night sometimes) short wires across each other. Water and wipe some wires off if they have a suspect coating like a dried/pale look to the wire casings (dried antifreeze).
irwinbdi
4/6/2007 5:12:42 PM
I performed a KOEO test and cam e up with the following codes:
4, 99, 21, 22, 41, 33
 
Also, I found that when I disconnect the TFI connector from the module all of the weirdness stops...
 
What do you all think? Bad TFI module?
 
Thanks all for your help!
irwinbdi
4/6/2007 7:56:54 PM
Update!
I got the weird electrical stuff to stop.
I did the following:
1) I removed the distributor and replaced the TFI.
2) I found the ECT wire grounded out. So I replaced it.
Now... I can't get a spark!? Also, I can't get the scanner to pull any codes.
What a mess! I'm so frustrated I can't think straight!!!
Aaaah!!!
Can someone get me started again on the right track? Please!
irwinbdi
4/9/2007 7:01:17 PM
Well guys,

Its time to call it quites on this project. It has become very clear I have an electrical problem that I can't figure out and I don't have the money to pay a mechanic to fix.

I would like to thank everyone that provided me with some guidance and direction.

Does anyone want to buy a 1990 Escort LX that doesn't run? It has about $300 worth of new parts installed on it. Everything else works on it and it is rust free and straight.

Brian

_________________
enibum
4/11/2007 1:56:58 AM
Brian, what would happen if you put the old TFI back in it? Also, the wire that you said was grounded, exactly how was it grounded? Bare wire touching metal?
irwinbdi
4/11/2007 8:54:31 PM
Swapping the TFI back made no difference. The electrical connector was the ECT. It was grounded out to a metal support. I replaced that wire/connector.
enibum
4/12/2007 2:50:43 AM
No blown fuses?
irwinbdi
4/12/2007 10:30:20 AM
No blown fuses in the fuse box. Also, the fusible links look OK. Is there a better way to check fusible links other then a visual check? I wish there was a way to remove them from the system and replace them with regular fuse block.
enibum
4/13/2007 2:56:12 AM
Yes, if you have an ohm meter. Unhook the battery cable and then use your ohm meter to check the continuity of the link. If it shows a very low reading, such as anything around an ohm or less, then it is OK. If you get no reading at all, then it is bad. You could also check it by checking for voltage at both ends of the link.  Make sure you have the battery cable connected to the battery for this. Hold the black lead of your volt meter on the negative terminal of the battery and use the red lead of your meter to read voltage at both ends of the fusable link. You should naturally read about twelve volts at the end of the link nearest the battery. Check the other end of the link, if you read voltage there then the link is good, if not it is bad. Does anything else on your car work electrically?
irwinbdi
4/13/2007 9:31:17 AM
The only questionable fusible link was the one to the altenator. I have replaced it. Now when I got the car, the air conditioner control switch was messed with. The blower fan doesn't work. I figured it might just be a bad blower replay. I have been so focused with the no start problem that I haven't addressed the relay. I have also discovered that the AC system is also controlled by the ECM. Do you thing there might be a relationship between the AC and the weird electrical issues when the key is turned to the on position? (yes, I might be really reaching way out there...)
enibum
4/14/2007 2:48:46 AM
Hmmm!?! I'm not sure about that. Maybe someone else can chime in here and educate us on that. I'm going to dig around on some other sites and see if I can find anything for you.
 
By the way, when you crank the motor over, does the distibutor rotor turn? 
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