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Loud top-end tick from the 4.6?

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  #21  
Old 09-04-2013, 05:09 PM
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And to round out this update, I was able to get the car up on ramps (the only way to fly, in my opinion) by jacking on it with the help of a couple of scissors jacks, actuated by my new-found friends, Campbell & Hausfeld. One on the side frame, and one directly underneath the lower control arm.





When I get into it next time, i'll be removing the transmission cable brackets, unbolting the transmission mount, unbolting the exhaust and the two motor mounts, removing the wiper assembly and anything else that needs to be moved in order to jack the engine (from above) by about 3 or 4 inches, which is the procedure being called for by Alldata in order to fully remove the oil pan. I've read the accounts where people said you can change the oil pump in place and just blow through the pickup tube in reverse. That's all fine and good, but it seems to me you'll just spew whatever is in the pickup tube, all over the bottom end of the motor and you'll have no way of getting it out yourself; you'll be completely reliant upon the oil pump to provide fresh clean oil to those places in order to clean them out, all the while doing damage. No thanks. I may change my mind once I get into it, but I've already got all the stuff it takes to raise the motor from above, including one of those specialty tools that straddles the hood, so unless I can find a compelling reason not to, it's going to happen.

Until next time.
 
  #22  
Old 09-04-2013, 08:42 PM
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The driver side valve cover can be removed by removing the break booster and a small brace to the wipers..This is an interference motor././ put the crank on TDC and the cam gears dots pointed up..after this point DO NOT ROTATE !!
 
  #23  
Old 09-04-2013, 09:19 PM
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Goldie the X cop car has 279,000 miles before the repair ..its been 1000 miles and I just changed the oil and filter ..all runs great..Dont do a lot of extra work that you dont havee to do..if you raise the motor you will have to remove the A/C box ..the passenger side valve cover can be raised enough to clear the cam gears.. the damage was probably due to poor service intervals and the wrong oil viscosity..now a little about me 40 plus years as mechanic and heavy equipment operator ..shop foreman at my last job ..before retireing..now a little about Goldie..2001 X Texas highway patrol car..lots of tricks done to her including vapor injection..K&N filter with modifyed air box dual exhaust with 18x3 glasspack mufflers and high flow cats ..super chip programmer to mention a few things..tops out at 140..dont make a practice of that..but I had to find out ..Nice to meet ya !
 

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  #24  
Old 09-06-2013, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by granpabobby
Goldie the X cop car has 279,000 miles before the repair ..its been 1000 miles and I just changed the oil and filter ..all runs great..Dont do a lot of extra work that you dont havee to do..if you raise the motor you will have to remove the A/C box ..the passenger side valve cover can be raised enough to clear the cam gears.. the damage was probably due to poor service intervals and the wrong oil viscosity..now a little about me 40 plus years as mechanic and heavy equipment operator ..shop foreman at my last job ..before retireing..now a little about Goldie..2001 X Texas highway patrol car..lots of tricks done to her including vapor injection..K&N filter with modifyed air box dual exhaust with 18x3 glasspack mufflers and high flow cats ..super chip programmer to mention a few things..tops out at 140..dont make a practice of that..but I had to find out ..Nice to meet ya !

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the wealth of knowledge you've shared. She sounds like a regular ole American muscle car.. must be fun! I haven't gotten back into this project yet.. reading over your comments, the AC box is already out, I evacuated the system and disconnected the lines at the accumulator (upper hose) and the evaporator (lower hose). It's a long story as to why I had to get it out, basically I had it set aside so I could get to the passenger valve cover, then it was getting in the way of fixing a problem in the wire harness that runs between the Central Junction Box and the cabin. I'm pretty sure the steps I outlined are all I'll have to do to raise the engine up.

While I've got the pan down, I might as well check the main caps. The problem is I have very little experience in the bottom of an engine. Perhaps you guys can shed light on how I can remove a couple of caps, which ones to remove, how I should go about re-installing them, how much torque, and in what order, etc? I feel like removing a couple of caps would tell me a lot about whether those metal flakes got inside the bearings to wreak havoc. I guess I'd be looking for any kind of scoring that I can see or feel (feel would be really bad), right?

I'm asking in advance because most likely, i'll do all the preparations to raise the engine in a half a day, then the next time I'm in there, i'll do all my cleaning, change the oil pump, the timing stuff and get her halfway buttoned up.. I won't have time to keep running back and forth, which is why I'm asking now. And I'll take any advice I can get. Much appreciated as always!
 
  #25  
Old 09-07-2013, 12:12 AM
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The motor must be set in time before the chains are removed..moveing the crank or cams seperatly will bend valves ..clean the heads and timeing areas ( I used diesel in a pump sprayer as well as break clean and air...flush out the pan with the sprayer..follow timeing found in the manual or on line..install oil pump and new chains and parts..that being done you can safely rotate the motor for checking the mains and inserts
 
  #26  
Old 09-19-2013, 05:33 PM
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So here we go again. I'm back on this thing after a 10 day hiatus. Between my work/sleep schedule, and the rain foiling my plans, I haven't had much time to work on this. Since my last update, I pulled the wipers and the wiper box, I unhooked and separated a couple of cables that were mounted underneath the master cylinder (in the same way there are connectors that hang on the back of the blower motor on the other side). I didn't have to pull the master cylinder to get to the driver's side valve cover, just those items. I also located and loosened the transmission mount bolts, the exhaust bolts, and the three motor mount bolts on the bottom. Now for the fun stuff from yesterday:


First I set the motor on time, I installed my OTC cam tool onto the middle of the cam, and started removing the passenger side chain. Another shot of that tensioner arm from a different angle:




I went ahead and changed the cam sprocket on that side, since it's included in my Cloyes timing kit.
 
  #27  
Old 09-19-2013, 05:50 PM
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After I got her good and tight, I removed my cam tool (I only bought one, because there is no pressure on the passenger side cam to cause it to move one way or the other, since all of the cam followers have been removed on that side).. moved the tool to the driver's side and removed its chain and all the goodies. I noticed that the tensioner itself had gotten worn. This is what we call in my line of work an "edge case" - you can find plenty of people with 4.6's between 110k and 150k miles who have worn tensioner arms, and sometimes the tensioners themselves are worn. But to have both the arm and the tensioner worn at 90k miles.. I can't help but think the life of this motor will be abruptly short, compared to others.




That's what I pulled off of the driver's side. Everything is worn. While I was cleaning up the front of the engine on that side, I also discovered two giant metal flakes.





Finally I got her all cleaned up, and got the driver's side sprocket ready to install:






Now.. a lingering question in my mind... did I need new bolts for those cam sprockets? I know the crank pulley bolt is a one-time use bolt because it has to be stretched (the service procedure calls for a certain amount of torque, and then a certain rotation). However the procedure to swap the cam sprockets simply says 90 ft-lbs of torque. So I re-used the bolts. If that's wrong, I can put new ones on.

Finally, the exhaust pipes are now disconnected, motor mounts are unbolted, transmission mount is unbolted, and it looks to me like she's ready to come up about 3 or 4 inches, whatever it takes for me to get the oil pan out, so I can have my way with her. Unfortunately the over-engine hoist I have from Harbor Freight is not adequate: 1000 Lb. Capacity Engine Support Bar

It's about 3 inches too short on each side, in order to straddle the hood. My plan was to simply let the bar rest on the fender, with a towel in between, but it's just too short to go from side to side. So I'm going to buy a full 8 ft. section of 4x4 and probably drill holes where I need to lift. Either that, or I could sandwich the tool from Harbor Freight in between two 2x4's and bolt it in. We'll see.

Until next time...
 
  #28  
Old 09-22-2013, 09:45 PM
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if you pull the main bearing and or rod caps, you will need new bolts. as they are a one use only part. according to all the books i've read on the 4.6/5.4 mod engine…

looks like i better check my donor engine cam chain guides, before installing the engine into my f100.
 
  #29  
Old 09-23-2013, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tempforce
if you pull the main bearing and or rod caps, you will need new bolts. as they are a one use only part. according to all the books i've read on the 4.6/5.4 mod engine…
Ok, good to know, thanks! You don't happen to know whether the cam sprocket bolts are one-time use, do you? Like I said, I saw no mention of stretching them in Alldata, but that doesn't exclude the necessity to replace them.

looks like i better check my donor engine cam chain guides, before installing the engine into my f100.
For sure! Engines at 80k+ seem to have some degree of this problem, although like I said, this is the first case I've encountered from all my research where the chain wore through the tensioner arms _and_ the tensioner at only 90k miles. It's had oil pressure issues, according to the idiot light (the 8 psi switch), since about 82k if that's any indicator. As for what causes this, I've read that there are unbalanced harmonics within the engine that always cause the passenger side guide to want to snap. So when I was replacing those cam sprockets and I saw that the sprocket on the driver's side has a "weight lobe" cast into the sprocket, and the passenger's side does not, it's like the sound of a tuning fork went off in my head. Surely there's some truth to the speculation that harmonics are to blame.

If you've got one of those flexible inspection cameras, you may find that you can get a decent look with one of those, simply by pulling valve covers. I say that because the timing cover gaskets must be replaced every time you pull the cover, according to what I've read. I feel reasonably certain that I would've been able to identify the eaten up tensioner arms with one of those cameras. Good luck with your project!
 
  #30  
Old 09-24-2013, 06:00 AM
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i'm not sure about the cam sprocket bolts…. i've seen what can happen if they come loose… so for the small amount of money to replace them… i would do it.. also use thread lock on them to make sure they don't come loose…
i'm just getting back into working on engines.. i've been away for about 25 years… so i'm doing a bunch of catch up, to get current….
 


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