I also also posted this on the noob section, but thought I might get more views here and a little more understanding about this type of vehicle.

background. I have been wrenching since I was 14. I have learned a lot through books, hard way, and internet. I am 43 now so I have had the opportunity to learn a lot, but still not a mechanic by any means.

I have a 1993 Ford E-350 Clubwagon with a e4od and 351w with dual heat and a/c. I got it a few years ago for $600 from a church and was in good condition with the exception of the clutches in the trans. I changed the trans and was successful but the engine was still heating up.

I changed the radiator, thermostat, and water pump. Now the engine will warm up to 1/4 on a warm day and maybe to the lowest line on a cold day after 20minutes of idling. When going down the road it will go cold on cold days and maybe 1/2 on a warm day.

I took it apart again this summer to fix it thinking the thermostat was having issues and replaced it.

it should be of note that the bolts snapped when originally taking out the thermostat and water pump and I had to drill and tap them, it really was something of a nightmare.

I am completely confused. I check the hoses and they are still all fairly cold. I don't understand how my engine is not heating up.

This is the one thing that I am thinking and maybe someone can verify this: When I replaced the water pump, I believe I may have replaced it with a hi-flow or heavy duty water pump. I dont' really believe that coolant flowing too fast should make this a problem. I do know there are 2 schools of thought on coolant flow, but could it cool my engine too much?

Any questions or input would be great. Thank You

 

Welcome to the site..

So,, the replacement T stat was a 192*? Have you used a coolant thermometer in the rad flow to verify actual temp to what the gauge is indicating? Odd that on a warm day, the temps will climb mid gauge to a more normal range. And should as well on a more moderate day/morn when idling since air flow through the radiator is low or minimal.

Most of the HD or higher flow pumps just use an updated impeller or have tighter clearances between the impeller and body. Some high flow use a reverse direction impeller and would cause a stock system to go over temp.

A high flow or HD may help with a high performance engine from going over temp ( if the radiator can flow more volume) with an increased flow, but a standard system is generally flow/circulation regulated by the thermostat and its given temperature rating. If 192-195, it shouldn't flow coolant until the temp within the block reaches those values. And once it has, circulation takes place as long as the coolant temp is "at or above" thermostat rating. That's where a higher flow pump can be a value, helping with increased flow to keep Heat as near to T stat rating as possible..

If the circulated coolant drops below thermostat rating, it should close, or partially restrict, and drive the temps back up with normal block heating until flow again occurs. So, if your gauge is flat lined on the bottom end, or close, it would seem it shouldn't be flowing coolant in the radiator. At least until engine temp hits 192. Even with a larger core radiator, higher efficiency pump, the coolant should be more or less regulated by the T stat rated heat.

Does the vans heater blow hot? Or follow what the temp gauge indicates on the colder side? Other than the pump, radiator , fan is OE? I've had problems in the past with non OE thermostats 'ranging up/down on the gauge with just normal driving, sometimes idling, but shouldn't go from near off the gauge cold to mid gauge, even on a warm day.

 

Thank you so much for the response. I will try to answer all your questions and be as direct as I can.

The thermostat was replaced with a 180 initially with holes punched for the purpose of extra flow. This thermostat housing has a bypass built into it, that leads into the water pump directly as well. I changed and added everything I could to make sure I didn't have a cooling problem. I was being a little paranoid and a person offered advice about adding holes in the t-stat body for extra cooling. I have since changed that one out with a 190, with no holes.

I have not used a thermometer as there was no point since the lines barely ever get warm. The up is usually barely warm and the lower is much cooler. I check the heater core lines both front and rear and they are plenty cool enough to touch.
The only time that the t-stat moves to actually 1/3 now that I looked at the gauge is after 1/2 to 1 hour of driving on a warm day on the freeway.

The engine will get to just over 1/2 when I am on the freeway pulling my trailer at 65-70mph.

I did a boil test on the thermostat and it appears to be functioning properly and I did use a thermostat with that.

The vans heater never blows warm except maybe in the summer which is usually not on.

The A/C is working both front and back. I replaced everything in the cooling except the compressor and that was only because I was sent the wrong one.

So here is something that someone else mentioned on a 94 ranger. They had the same symptoms and one person mentioned the fan clutch being a problem of drawing too much air all the time. I am pretty sure my fan always runs. I didn't know that that was wrong as it seemed on the 70's cars that was normal and most 80/90/2000 cars I have owned have had electric fans.

I checked my fan and sure enough it is running all the time and with no slippage. I turned it with my hand and it turn somewhat freely, but I am guessing it should have been very free. Is it possible that this could be a problem or the problem that I am having?

I drove it to the gym and get gas yesterday and it was 20degrees out. the fog cam off the window but I checked and the heat was barely warmer than the air outside.

Any thoughts would be great.

 

How many heater hoses are going to the engine? Are you trying to supply 2 heater cores? If so are the hoses insulated to prevent heat loss on the way to the rear?
Suggestion, If you were to clamp off all the heater hoses , does it make any difference in engine operating temp? Fan clutch should not run all the time at full speed unless the heat coming from the radiator is high enough to cause the fan to lock on to full speed.

 

thanks,

yes it is a clubwagon so it has 2 heater cores and two condensors.

no the lines are not insulated.

I believe there are only two hoses going to the engine and the line splits off the rear.

Ya the fan is running from the moment I start the vehicle until the time I shut it off and it appears to speed up with the engine. I had no idea how the fan clutch is supposed to work on these vehicles. I can understand that if everything is clean and clear and working as it is supposed to that the fan might cool the engine a little fast if it is running all the time. My truck has the same engine but it seemed like the fan always ran on it too, and it has awesome heating and always sits right in the middle and climbs only in the hills when I am pulling a trailer.

Boy if it was as easy as a fan clutch that sure would make my life easier since the temp outside has plunged to 7 above 0.

 

Usually a thermostatically controlled fan will run at engine speed for a few seconds if cold, when first started, then slow down to a slower speed until enough heat from the radiator raises the temp enough for the fan to go to full engine speed. Even if the engine speed is raised when cold the fan should not go to full speed. You can definitely hear the speed drop when first started if the engine is cold.

 

Thanks, I will have a look tomorrow and see if it spins up as the engine speeds up. It moves without the engine running but is stiff. I would imagine it might slip if moving fast enough while cold and then tighten up when it warms up. I really hope this is the problem because I am at my witts end.

I will also try to just force a 50/50 mix with a drill pump into the system tomorrow and see if I can find any air spots and remove them. The biggest problem with a two core system is there might be a lot of spots for air to hide. I am gonna look at it again tomorrow.

 

Fan clutches are a viscous lock up design.
The thermostatic spring on its nose rotates under normal radiant flow passing through the radiator and regulating slip or rotational speeds. Some slight drag on the clutch is normal cold, so is a higher rate of rotation and noise on initial startup, cold, then should fall back as hanky mentioned. Most fan clutch failures cause overheating from lock failure. If it were locked up, drag was severe enough, the noise and speed cold would most likely be constant and reasonably noticeable.
Plus, you had no heating issues prior to the radiator, t stat, and pump replacement, correct?
Technically, unless block temp meets the t stat rating, it shouldn't flow much coolant or very little. One reason I asked about thermometer checking. Can you 'visibly' see the coolant flow change on a t stat opening event? Or, does it flow when started cold? If the cores are isolated, fan engagement seems correct, I'd look back at what's been done prior.

 

yes, thank you for all the comments. So I finally got around to working on the van. The weather has been crap and I have no shelter. So I did restrict the bypass on the waterpump/thermostat housing with a fuel clamp/restritor. This had a very small effect, but I had more heat in a shorter period of time 20minutes instead of 40 minutes. I also replaced the fan clutch today. I finally realize that part of the high speed start sound Is not just the engine reving at 1500rpm and then dropping to 750, but also the fan clutch is engaging to slow the fan. So one thing I noticed was that the old clutch was pulsing, and the new one is a severe duty with a little larger balancer that the old one.

So I am super stumped. The only thing I haven't replaced was the heater core and don't remember having done a test on it, or the rear one for that matter. I would think this would have little effect on the engine coming to temperature. I would be more suspicious of them if the engine was at temp.

I am thinking I need to look at some schematics or diagrams of the flow for a clubwagon, but my book doesn't offer this. I have been unable to obtain one. I am just wondering if somehow I hooked a hose up in the wrong place and I am getting a perpetual flow around the thermostat somehow. The other thought is that I had to remove a broken bolt on the thermostat housing and damage the surface slightly. I am wondering after repairing it if the thermostat isn't leaking. I had about 100 degree heat at the top of the radiator tonight and the lower hose was probably around 80 degrees. I took it for a drive to get the motor rev'd and it seemed to not really get much warmer until I stopped and then it increased a very small amount. I started to rev the engine and of course the temp started to drop.

If anyone has a diagram of coolant flow for a 93 clubwagon I would be hugely grateful. Thanks.

 

Ok, so I did some more today. I finally tried the trick that I seen from someone else that had this exact problem with the two heater core van. I hooked up a pump and kept the system closed expecting that any overpressure from the excess coolant and air would be pushed out of the cap at 13pounds. So my first try was with a Ryobi 18v drill-just not enough power to get the coolant up the 5/8" line. So I tried another angle drill and same thing. I couldn't find my good drills, so I hooked up my 1/8" trim router. Oh ya, plenty of power, just no way to control the flow or speed. So I got the air out of the lines and as expected pushed the air into the overflow, but a little too much to fast so begun to flow from the cap as well. At least I got the air out. So just to be sure I didn't blow anything I checked all my lines. So far so good. I am kind of at that point that anything is better than nothing. So initially testing produces the same thing. I let it idle for about 20 minutes and still just getting minimally warm. I mean the gauge barely moves from the bottom. In fact not running the guage sits higher, lol. I do check the radiator and hoses and same result around 100 degrees F. So going down hill and rev'ing the engine drops the gauge. Driving up hills in first gear was nothing to the gauge or the temp of the radiator or lines. Sitting idle coming in from a test drive, makes the gauge go up a little over the bottom line. I shut the engine down and of course the engine temp rises again over the bottom line, but barely. This should happen as their is no flow, so the engine should heat up a little. So this is telling me that there is flow. It almost indicates a stuck open thermostat. I am getting the feeling that maybe the thermostat housing is allowing the thermostat to leak coolant around the edges of the thermostat, creating a full open flow condition.

So I will perform a couple more tests next week when I have time. 1 being I will clamp off the lines to the heater core for giggles and see if there is any improvement. 2 I will take out the thermostat, get a 195 and seal it in. I will check to see that it sits snug on both sides of the housing bother on the lower intake and thermostat housing. Any suggestions would be great. I will try to recap below. I am starting to lose track. I am having a similar problem with a 03' Saturn view. I replaced everything cooling and it is still partly overheating on one side. So I am starting to lose track of everything I have done on each vehicle.

1. Replaced Radiator with new radiator.
2. Replaced the water pump
3. Replaced the thermostat 2x
4. Crimped the bypass hose
5. Pump filled the coolant
6. Flushed the entire engine
7. Installed flush outlets on both sides of the heater core
8. Changed the fan clutch/looks like the old one was fine

Things I haven't done:
1. Flushed the heater cores
2. clamped off the heater hoses
3. test the thermostat for proper function with thermometer
4. check the gap around the thermostat, for proper fitment
5. try to bypass the heater core with a clear hose and see if there is coolant movement all the time. from what I understand there should be little to none before the thermostat opens. I have the clear hoses from working on the Saturn. I think I will try the same on it. I think the timing chain that only runs the water pump is broken.