HVAC Switch
#1
01-08-2012, 04:47 PM
HVAC Switch
I have a 1999 Winstar with an HVAC issue that started today. When the heat temp is turned up, there is a clicking sound, but the heat level doesn't change. If the heat temp is turned down, the clicking sound is even louder. If the heat temp is set at the origional position, the clicking sound stops.
It sounds to me like there is a gear with missing teath or something is causing the temp blend door to stick and the grear is skipping. Anybody have this problem before? Where do I access the housing where the blend door is inside?
Here is a diagram of the system
Ford Windstar HVAC Vacuum Components and Parts Diagram | Car Parts Diagram
Here are related issues
https://www.fordforum.com/forum/ford...old-hot-19966/
https://www.fordforum.com/forum/ford...r-issue-11151/
It sounds to me like there is a gear with missing teath or something is causing the temp blend door to stick and the grear is skipping. Anybody have this problem before? Where do I access the housing where the blend door is inside?
Here is a diagram of the system
Ford Windstar HVAC Vacuum Components and Parts Diagram | Car Parts Diagram
Here are related issues
https://www.fordforum.com/forum/ford...old-hot-19966/
https://www.fordforum.com/forum/ford...r-issue-11151/
Last edited by tb30570; 01-08-2012 at 04:52 PM.
#2
01-08-2012, 05:20 PM
BLEND DOOR
The most common symptom is no heat. The door breaks and falls to the bottom of the box, blocking any air from flowing through the heater core. It is not a perfect seal, so there will be a small amount of heat, and it will impact the AC efficiency since some small amount of air will leak into the heater core with AC on. Repairing the door will restore heat and improve AC efficiency.
If you fully open the glove box, you can see the actuator motor to the left of the opening. It is white and held on with three 8mm screws. To get a full view of the plenum box and actuator motor, it is best to remove the center console control panel. The hard part is removing the radio. There are two holes on each side of the radio module. These holes accept a special tool from Ford that will disengage the clip mechanism and allow the radio to be removed. It’s not hard to do if you have the tool and have done it before, but otherwise is frustrating. The tool is just a “U” shaped wire that is inserted into the two holes and pushed together to disengage the clip. You need two U’s. The tool is available from any parts store, or make your own with a fairly heavy gauge wire(a coat hanger is too thin). A good car thief can strip a radio out in seconds, so it’s not difficult and with a little practice, you could also become proficient. You can always go down to any car radio installation place and they can pull it quickly and probably won’t charge anything if they think there is a chance of selling you something.
With the radio out, there are two screws at the top of the center bezel and two at the bottom that have to be removed. On some models, the console between the seats may have to be unbolted and pulled back. The panel will pull out and can be completely removed by disconnecting the different wiring connectors to the HVAC control module and the different lights and functions. With the center console panel removed, you have fairly easy access to the actuator motor.
Remove the screws holding the actuator motor module in place and pull the motor back to remove it. Watch for plastic bits that will indicate a broken axle. With the motor removed, you can use a large screw driver to turn the axle, checking for smooth movement and a hard stop with about 90 degrees of movement between the full open and full closed positions of the door. If there is a “spongy” feel at either extent of movement, this is a good indication that the door is in the process of breaking and needs to be replaced.
One more unique thing to look for on the Windstar. Notice in the picture that there is a metal tube that connects to the AC evaporator core. If you look closely, you can see a scrape mark where the door hits this tube. This is a design flaw in the Windstar and the lines going to the evaporator core do not have enough clearance for the door to avoid scraping the line. When you are checking the door, you may feel the door scraping against this line. This is a confusion point for the computer system since it will detect an intermittent resistance in door movement and can incorrectly calibrate door movement. When this happens, the extents of movement are set incorrectly and the system will drive the motor past the normal stop point, creating excessive force on the door and causing breakage. Note that the HeaterTreater replacement door is notched to avoid this problem.
MOTOR FAILURE
You may also find that the motor is not working and appears to be dead. This is a common mistake and leads to a lot of motors being replaced when this is not the real problem. You can check operation of the motor independent of the computer control with a 9V snap connector battery. Check the tech info on our HeaterTreater.net web site for details.
Another reported fail symptom is a “clicking” sound coming from behind the HVAC system. This occurs when the motor gears get out of alignment and are slipping against each other, making the noise. Sometimes you can make it stop by pushing down on the back of the motor and getting the gears to catch. The failure usually occurs with a broken blend door that allows the motor to get out of alignment and twist slightly, causing the gears to disengage. The HeaterTreater will put the system back in alignment and correct this problem.
RE-CIRC DOOR
The re-circ door has two positions, block external vent forcing air to be pulled from the internal port, or block internal port forcing air to be pulled from the external vent. When the door breaks, both the external vent and the internal port are open and air will flow into the external vent and out of the internal port…like having a window rolled down all the time.
The internal port is visible under the passenger side dash in the far right side(see picture). On the bottom visible grate, you can see the door move back and forth if it is operating properly. Since the Windstar is a mini-van and you probably have access to kids, this is a good job for them. With the engine running, have the youngest put his little finger into the grate and turn re-circ on and off. If you hear a loud scream when it pinches his finger, the door is OK…….WAIT,WAIT, WAIT, sorry that was for my kids. For yours, squeezing under the dash and watching the door through the grate will also work. The door is vacuum controlled and you can also see the vacuum actuator move to control the door.
When the door breaks, you can usually see the broken axle where the vacuum actuator connects to the re-circ door. If the observation is inconclusive, the final test is the “foot test”. Have your kid sit in the passenger seat(seatbelt on) and take off his right shoe and sock. Take the Windstar up to highway speeds and have the passenger feel for air coming into the passenger compartment through the grate to the far right under the dash. If he can feel air coming in, the re-circ door is leaking and this may be the cause of a cold passenger compartment on cold days. We are developing a fix for this door and if you need to replace yours, pestering us through email will speed things up.
The most common symptom is no heat. The door breaks and falls to the bottom of the box, blocking any air from flowing through the heater core. It is not a perfect seal, so there will be a small amount of heat, and it will impact the AC efficiency since some small amount of air will leak into the heater core with AC on. Repairing the door will restore heat and improve AC efficiency.
If you fully open the glove box, you can see the actuator motor to the left of the opening. It is white and held on with three 8mm screws. To get a full view of the plenum box and actuator motor, it is best to remove the center console control panel. The hard part is removing the radio. There are two holes on each side of the radio module. These holes accept a special tool from Ford that will disengage the clip mechanism and allow the radio to be removed. It’s not hard to do if you have the tool and have done it before, but otherwise is frustrating. The tool is just a “U” shaped wire that is inserted into the two holes and pushed together to disengage the clip. You need two U’s. The tool is available from any parts store, or make your own with a fairly heavy gauge wire(a coat hanger is too thin). A good car thief can strip a radio out in seconds, so it’s not difficult and with a little practice, you could also become proficient. You can always go down to any car radio installation place and they can pull it quickly and probably won’t charge anything if they think there is a chance of selling you something.
With the radio out, there are two screws at the top of the center bezel and two at the bottom that have to be removed. On some models, the console between the seats may have to be unbolted and pulled back. The panel will pull out and can be completely removed by disconnecting the different wiring connectors to the HVAC control module and the different lights and functions. With the center console panel removed, you have fairly easy access to the actuator motor.
Remove the screws holding the actuator motor module in place and pull the motor back to remove it. Watch for plastic bits that will indicate a broken axle. With the motor removed, you can use a large screw driver to turn the axle, checking for smooth movement and a hard stop with about 90 degrees of movement between the full open and full closed positions of the door. If there is a “spongy” feel at either extent of movement, this is a good indication that the door is in the process of breaking and needs to be replaced.
One more unique thing to look for on the Windstar. Notice in the picture that there is a metal tube that connects to the AC evaporator core. If you look closely, you can see a scrape mark where the door hits this tube. This is a design flaw in the Windstar and the lines going to the evaporator core do not have enough clearance for the door to avoid scraping the line. When you are checking the door, you may feel the door scraping against this line. This is a confusion point for the computer system since it will detect an intermittent resistance in door movement and can incorrectly calibrate door movement. When this happens, the extents of movement are set incorrectly and the system will drive the motor past the normal stop point, creating excessive force on the door and causing breakage. Note that the HeaterTreater replacement door is notched to avoid this problem.
MOTOR FAILURE
You may also find that the motor is not working and appears to be dead. This is a common mistake and leads to a lot of motors being replaced when this is not the real problem. You can check operation of the motor independent of the computer control with a 9V snap connector battery. Check the tech info on our HeaterTreater.net web site for details.
Another reported fail symptom is a “clicking” sound coming from behind the HVAC system. This occurs when the motor gears get out of alignment and are slipping against each other, making the noise. Sometimes you can make it stop by pushing down on the back of the motor and getting the gears to catch. The failure usually occurs with a broken blend door that allows the motor to get out of alignment and twist slightly, causing the gears to disengage. The HeaterTreater will put the system back in alignment and correct this problem.
RE-CIRC DOOR
The re-circ door has two positions, block external vent forcing air to be pulled from the internal port, or block internal port forcing air to be pulled from the external vent. When the door breaks, both the external vent and the internal port are open and air will flow into the external vent and out of the internal port…like having a window rolled down all the time.
The internal port is visible under the passenger side dash in the far right side(see picture). On the bottom visible grate, you can see the door move back and forth if it is operating properly. Since the Windstar is a mini-van and you probably have access to kids, this is a good job for them. With the engine running, have the youngest put his little finger into the grate and turn re-circ on and off. If you hear a loud scream when it pinches his finger, the door is OK…….WAIT,WAIT, WAIT, sorry that was for my kids. For yours, squeezing under the dash and watching the door through the grate will also work. The door is vacuum controlled and you can also see the vacuum actuator move to control the door.
When the door breaks, you can usually see the broken axle where the vacuum actuator connects to the re-circ door. If the observation is inconclusive, the final test is the “foot test”. Have your kid sit in the passenger seat(seatbelt on) and take off his right shoe and sock. Take the Windstar up to highway speeds and have the passenger feel for air coming into the passenger compartment through the grate to the far right under the dash. If he can feel air coming in, the re-circ door is leaking and this may be the cause of a cold passenger compartment on cold days. We are developing a fix for this door and if you need to replace yours, pestering us through email will speed things up.
#3
01-08-2012, 05:35 PM
More info:
The temperature blend door actuator is the component that moves a flapper type door inside the dash that adjusts the amount of cold outside air that is mixed in with air that passes over the heater core.
It is a common issue with Windstars to fail, but is also a very straight-forward, do-it-yourself repair.
I priced this job at a dealer and it came in for around $300!
This is a really simple repair, a great choice for the do-it-yourselfer.
Here are the steps/procedures for doing this repair yourself in about 30 minutes:
Removing stuck radio
Additional information added 10-Jan-2009 by Elliott Wolin:
The instructions above worked well for me except that the radio was stuck; the removal tool did not work on the left side. The problem was that the internal metal locking tabs on the left side of the radio partially broke. I had to remove the panels below the steering column and reach in and depress what was left of the locking tab mechanism from the left side with a shorty flat-head screwdriver. Then I inserted a thin rod into the hole in the front of the radio to keep the depressed tab in place, first the top one, then the bottom. This was not particularly easy.
Answer
I have a 1999 Windstar and took out the radio and it was right behind it, it is simple to do. If you can turn on the heater but only cold air comes out you should check the blend door. It controls the door to switch from cold air to hot. It sits directly behind the heater/AC controls. It is white square plastic piece (approx 3in x 5in half inch thick and has a plastic screw rod that attaches to the heater/AC controls and they strip out. Hope this helps.
This is an easy repair and most anyone with any sense of mechanics can accomplish it in less than an hour. Part is cheap at autoZone, and is not difficult at all. Pay attention to the placement of the temp control switches as they will make a difference in lining up the right place to install. little White Box
There is a small electric motor located under the dash about center. It cost about $40.00 It is sort of a flat rectangle shape with a set of wire's that plug into the side. The gear in side the motor is plastic and strips out causing a door inside the air duct to open about half way then fall back closed, it sounds like someone beating a plastic drum. Turn it on while under the dash and you should be able to locate it. It drove me crazy for a week!!!
2002 Windstar Sport
I was getting a loud knocking on cold and a light and sometimes no knock on hot, but no heat was coming out. The above fix was right on, I used a cut and bent coat hanger in place of the proper tool to remove radio, and the dash trim had to come off as the radio bracket impedes the lower bolts on actuator. I unclipped wire retainers for heater/AC controls from radio bracket and the dash panel will almost sit on floor. My nut driver would not grab top bolt, instead I needed my u-joint and ratchet. Before completely removing actuator, rotate it manually to see if the blend door opens and closes (as opposed to being broken which is a much costlier fix) Total time for me was 45 minutes and a scraped knuckle.
that noise you are hearing is the blender motor, It is located behind the radio
dealer item only, about 160.00. It makes your blower go from defrost to floor
kind of hard to get to, there are three bolts that hold it on Answer
The whole thing took about two hours. It is a very easy repair and I definitely would do it myself if I were you. The part number is: XF2Z19E616FB
I think it cost me $55 with tax and they had it in stock.
If you have a 1999 or newer then I think the layout is the same as mine.
The first thing you need to do is remove the stereo. You will need a special Ford tool for this. You can buy them at the dealership, WalMart or any auto parts store for around $5. These are a couple of 'U' Shaped pieces of metal that slide into the stereo holes. It will snap into place and you push them to the outside and slide the stereo out. Real easy. Now unplug the antenna and other cables and put the stereo somewhere.
Now you will need a socket set. I don't remember the size but it is pretty small. There are two screws at the top of the HVAC control panel. You should be able to see them after you remove the stereo. There are two more screws at the bottom of the HVAC control panel. I think you have to slide out the cup holder to get to them.
Once all of the screws are out you should be able to slid the HVAC control panel out. There are a bunch of wires and vacuum lines so just be gentle. If the wires are long enough, they were in mine, you should be able to slide it out and just put the whole thing off to one side. I didn't have to disconnect anything. But you can if you want.
Now you should be able to see the black plastic duct work. On that there will be a small off-white plastic module, like others have said it is about the size of a pack of cigarettes. That is the actuator. You will need a socket again and there are three screws. Take out the screws and the module should slide out. There is a power connector to the module, make sure you unplug it.
If you want to make sure the module is the problem then you can leave it plugged in. Turn on the car and move the blend door lever. The one that goes from hot to cold. That should move the shaft coming out of the module. If it moves one way and doesn't stop it is broken. If it doesn't move it is broken.
I think if this is your problem then you should pry open the old module, pull out the shaft and slide it into the hole on the duct. Then move the shaft back and forth to make sure that the door is not jammed before you put the new actuator in. I did this cause I didn't want to put the new one in and have it jammed and burn out the new actuator. I would advice that you use a flat-head screw driver to (gently) pry the a/c control and radio console trim loose. Just a slight bit of force at about the mid point on each side should do the trick. Also, watch out for the clips on the wiring harness inserts behind the radio. They break easily. =D (This is a Ford we're talking about)
I just wanted to add, you find actuators online for pretty cheap. Anytime you lose heat or A/C and think it is related to the climate control or an actuator motor, it is also possible that your blend door has failed, not only the actuator. It is very common with Ford Windstars. In order to access the blend doors you have to pull the dash and extract the plenum box. There is also a method popping up online where you can replace the blend door by removing the glovebox and making an incision in the plenum box. I did this when I installed a heatertreater, I have also disassembled and re-assembled the dash a number of times. The method of going through the glovebox saves a ton of labor and time, but I would not recommend attempting it without specific instructions or a mechanic that has performed this fix.
It is a common issue with Windstars to fail, but is also a very straight-forward, do-it-yourself repair.
I priced this job at a dealer and it came in for around $300!
This is a really simple repair, a great choice for the do-it-yourselfer.
Here are the steps/procedures for doing this repair yourself in about 30 minutes:
- Tools to do the job:
- Ford radio removal tools
- 5/16 nut-driver
- Flashlight
- Small hands or band-aids
- Remove the radio -
- Insert the U-shaped 'handles' into the vertical pair of holes on each side of the front of the radio until you feel it hit an indent / click .
- With both tools inserted, push outward on the top of the tools while pulling the radio out & away from the dash.
- Disconnect the 2 wire harness connectors & the antenna.
- (Optional) Remove A/C & Radio control dash panel
- Removing the A/C & Radio control dash panel gives you additional access to the actuator to help with removal and installation. This is not a difficult option.
- Loosen and remove two screws revealed just above radio when radio was removed.
- Loosen and remove two screws inside (one on each side) the drink holder & ash tray drawer.
- Gently pull the loosened section of the dash panel forward.
- Do not remove connectors for A/C control panel. You'll need the A/C control panel active to align the driver post of the actuator with the blend door drive hole.
- You might want a helper to hold the panel off to the right while you work.
- Reassembly is exactly reverse.
- Remove / replace the blend door actuator -
- Looking in through the radio opening, locate the actuator module - a white plastic unit about the size of a pack of cigarettes.
- Use the nut-driver to remove the three 5/16ths mounting screws.
- Disconnect the wiring harness located on the side
- Reverse steps to re-install
- In order to line up the shaft I had to crank the car and move the temp selector. Note: You do not have to turn on the A/C system for the temp selector to control the actuator, but you must have the actuator control cable re-connected.
- Reassemble the dash panel.
- Reinstall the radio (watch that no cables bind during the reinstallation.
- What the actuator is / does:
- Inside this unit is a circuit board, motor and small plastic round gears. The gears then rotate the actuator, which in turn opens and closes the damper allowing the air to pass through the heater core.
- What happens is some of the little teeth break off creating a gap on the gear wheel. This gap prevents the gears from driving the actuator shaft.
- The unit may be known as a heater damper module by the dealer. Should cost around $60-$75. (One reader acquired the actuator for $34 from O'Reilly.)
- This unit was purchased from Advanced Auto for $ 45 and the flat rate is .4 hours. I did mine in around thirty minutes with the hardest part being getting the radio out ( it seemed stuck ).
Removing stuck radio
Additional information added 10-Jan-2009 by Elliott Wolin:
The instructions above worked well for me except that the radio was stuck; the removal tool did not work on the left side. The problem was that the internal metal locking tabs on the left side of the radio partially broke. I had to remove the panels below the steering column and reach in and depress what was left of the locking tab mechanism from the left side with a shorty flat-head screwdriver. Then I inserted a thin rod into the hole in the front of the radio to keep the depressed tab in place, first the top one, then the bottom. This was not particularly easy.
Answer
I have a 1999 Windstar and took out the radio and it was right behind it, it is simple to do. If you can turn on the heater but only cold air comes out you should check the blend door. It controls the door to switch from cold air to hot. It sits directly behind the heater/AC controls. It is white square plastic piece (approx 3in x 5in half inch thick and has a plastic screw rod that attaches to the heater/AC controls and they strip out. Hope this helps.
This is an easy repair and most anyone with any sense of mechanics can accomplish it in less than an hour. Part is cheap at autoZone, and is not difficult at all. Pay attention to the placement of the temp control switches as they will make a difference in lining up the right place to install. little White Box
There is a small electric motor located under the dash about center. It cost about $40.00 It is sort of a flat rectangle shape with a set of wire's that plug into the side. The gear in side the motor is plastic and strips out causing a door inside the air duct to open about half way then fall back closed, it sounds like someone beating a plastic drum. Turn it on while under the dash and you should be able to locate it. It drove me crazy for a week!!!
2002 Windstar Sport
I was getting a loud knocking on cold and a light and sometimes no knock on hot, but no heat was coming out. The above fix was right on, I used a cut and bent coat hanger in place of the proper tool to remove radio, and the dash trim had to come off as the radio bracket impedes the lower bolts on actuator. I unclipped wire retainers for heater/AC controls from radio bracket and the dash panel will almost sit on floor. My nut driver would not grab top bolt, instead I needed my u-joint and ratchet. Before completely removing actuator, rotate it manually to see if the blend door opens and closes (as opposed to being broken which is a much costlier fix) Total time for me was 45 minutes and a scraped knuckle.
that noise you are hearing is the blender motor, It is located behind the radio
dealer item only, about 160.00. It makes your blower go from defrost to floor
kind of hard to get to, there are three bolts that hold it on Answer
The whole thing took about two hours. It is a very easy repair and I definitely would do it myself if I were you. The part number is: XF2Z19E616FB
I think it cost me $55 with tax and they had it in stock.
If you have a 1999 or newer then I think the layout is the same as mine.
The first thing you need to do is remove the stereo. You will need a special Ford tool for this. You can buy them at the dealership, WalMart or any auto parts store for around $5. These are a couple of 'U' Shaped pieces of metal that slide into the stereo holes. It will snap into place and you push them to the outside and slide the stereo out. Real easy. Now unplug the antenna and other cables and put the stereo somewhere.
Now you will need a socket set. I don't remember the size but it is pretty small. There are two screws at the top of the HVAC control panel. You should be able to see them after you remove the stereo. There are two more screws at the bottom of the HVAC control panel. I think you have to slide out the cup holder to get to them.
Once all of the screws are out you should be able to slid the HVAC control panel out. There are a bunch of wires and vacuum lines so just be gentle. If the wires are long enough, they were in mine, you should be able to slide it out and just put the whole thing off to one side. I didn't have to disconnect anything. But you can if you want.
Now you should be able to see the black plastic duct work. On that there will be a small off-white plastic module, like others have said it is about the size of a pack of cigarettes. That is the actuator. You will need a socket again and there are three screws. Take out the screws and the module should slide out. There is a power connector to the module, make sure you unplug it.
If you want to make sure the module is the problem then you can leave it plugged in. Turn on the car and move the blend door lever. The one that goes from hot to cold. That should move the shaft coming out of the module. If it moves one way and doesn't stop it is broken. If it doesn't move it is broken.
I think if this is your problem then you should pry open the old module, pull out the shaft and slide it into the hole on the duct. Then move the shaft back and forth to make sure that the door is not jammed before you put the new actuator in. I did this cause I didn't want to put the new one in and have it jammed and burn out the new actuator. I would advice that you use a flat-head screw driver to (gently) pry the a/c control and radio console trim loose. Just a slight bit of force at about the mid point on each side should do the trick. Also, watch out for the clips on the wiring harness inserts behind the radio. They break easily. =D (This is a Ford we're talking about)
I just wanted to add, you find actuators online for pretty cheap. Anytime you lose heat or A/C and think it is related to the climate control or an actuator motor, it is also possible that your blend door has failed, not only the actuator. It is very common with Ford Windstars. In order to access the blend doors you have to pull the dash and extract the plenum box. There is also a method popping up online where you can replace the blend door by removing the glovebox and making an incision in the plenum box. I did this when I installed a heatertreater, I have also disassembled and re-assembled the dash a number of times. The method of going through the glovebox saves a ton of labor and time, but I would not recommend attempting it without specific instructions or a mechanic that has performed this fix.
#6
01-13-2012, 06:46 PM
I've replaced 3 blend door actuators in my Lincoln Navigator! 1 inside dashboard and 2 in rear AC unit. PITA in the dash, but easy in the back AC unit. I eventually went to a junkyard, scavenged 3 Fords for just the gears after opening up the units, and for about an hour of work at the junkyard and no cost at all, I fixed the last one and have spares for future failures.
IDK why they don't make the stupid gears out of metal knowing how poorly these things last. How much more could it cost to cast them out of something durable and spare folks the repairs in the future. This is the kind of thing that drives people nuts about the reliability/durability of their cars over the long haul.
IDK why they don't make the stupid gears out of metal knowing how poorly these things last. How much more could it cost to cast them out of something durable and spare folks the repairs in the future. This is the kind of thing that drives people nuts about the reliability/durability of their cars over the long haul.
#7
01-14-2012, 06:44 PM
I went to Autozone with my old actuator. The old was has part number xf2h19e616fa. Autozone couldn't find the part based on the make/model/year or using the old part number. I went home and pulled the XF2Z19E616FB part number off this thread. I cross referenced that number to Dorman 604-203. Autozone said they did stock that part number at a different location so I picked it up at O'Reilly instead because it's closer.
Nice searching tools Autozone. SUCK
Nice searching tools Autozone. SUCK
#8
01-16-2012, 11:18 AM
I've replaced 3 blend door actuators in my
IDK why they don't make the stupid gears out of metal knowing how poorly these things last. How much more could it cost to cast them out of something durable and spare folks the repairs in the future. This is the kind of thing that drives people nuts about the reliability/durability of their cars over the long haul.
IDK why they don't make the stupid gears out of metal knowing how poorly these things last. How much more could it cost to cast them out of something durable and spare folks the repairs in the future. This is the kind of thing that drives people nuts about the reliability/durability of their cars over the long haul.
#9
07-09-2012, 09:17 AM
I cannot get power to the front blower motor on my 2004 Mercury Monterey. All fuses are good and it gives power all the way untill it gets to the speed **** control. Will not get power after this. Any ideas on what to do?
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