BIZZARE FUEL DELIVERY PROBLEM
#1
10-06-2005, 02:50 AM
BIZZARE FUEL DELIVERY PROBLEM
SORRY FOR SUCH A LONG POST, BUT I WANT TO GIVE YOU AS MUCH INFO AS POSSIBLE AND TEST RESULTS SO YOU CAN
HELP ME.
1996 taurus GL 3.0L vin"U" non flex fuel OHV
ok, new to the forum and would really appreciate some help. i just bought a 96 taurus with 162k miles on it
with the check engine light on.
i have alot of skills on older mills but not this new injected stuff. i will describe what has happened to
me and what i have done in the following. if anyone can help, it would be greatly appreciated.
1 . CEL ( check engine light) throwing 340 code
2. removed cam position sensor only to find that it had failed and trashed the cam syncro
3. bought new syncro, cpm sensor and tool to index it.
4. marked the syncro against the intake and the sensor as best i could for repositioning of the new one.
5. used tool to index syncro 38deg. ccw of crank centerline and dropped it back in with tool attached so
that it met up with marks on intake that i had made
before removing the old one.
6. looked right on the money so i ran the hold down bolt in and removed the tool and installed the CPS and
put it back togeather.
7. now running into surging and stalling and just general bad performance. sometimes surges on idle for
about 500 rpm to 1200 rpm. after you rev it up a couple of times , idle surge go's away.
8. came out of hospital an hour after being there and started car and idle surges as described above.
corrected by reving motor couple of times.
9 drove 2 miles to wendys to eat.
10 . came out after about 30 mins and started car and it stalled. car was nose up on a hill. started again
and it stalled. held foot down on accelerator and started and it came up to about 2000 rpm and held it
there for a few seconds. card idled ok.
11. drove about 10 miles on freeway home.
12. pulling into driveway, stopped to let garage door finish opening. as i tipped into the throttle to pull
into the garage, the car stumbled and acted like it was going to stall. had to goose it a little to get it
into the garage.
13. at this time i feel that i have a fuel delivery problem. nobody around here knowledge on fords and the
dealer that is close to me wont even let me talk to one of their tech's. i went to the dealer to ask a tech
about what he thought and was treated like crap by the service mgr and was told that i would not be allowed
to talk to a tech. he just assumed that i was just another idiot that had no clue.
14. now it's up to me and the haynes manual. OH BOY.
15. bought fuel pressure tested for EFI ford testing and bought vaccume pump for testing. also new plugs.
16. ran compression test and #5 cylinder is a little low but i dont feel that it is causing the issue.
17. bear in mind that the car is not throwing any codes.
18. haynes manual says that key on / engine off fuel pressure should be 37-45 psi and running should be
26-45 psi.
19. had wife turn on ignition and watched fuel pressure - 9 psi. - WHAT ? - had her start the car and
pressure came up to about 38 psi. really confused now.
20. had her shut the engine off and waited about 30 seconds. turn ignition back on without motor running -
fuel pressure now 16 psi. - said to myself, what the hell ?
21. started car and observed normal fuel pressure. pulled vaccume line off of fuel regulator and fuel
pressure went up to 42 psi. looks good to me. put vaccume line back on and pressure dropped back to 38 psi.
at this time im thinkin that the regulator is ok but not sure.
22. after shutting off motor had her turn key back on without starting motor. fuel pressure now 25 psi.
GETTING MORE CONFUSED.
23. started motor and read how much vaccume was being applied to the regulator from the vaccume circuit. it
was 18".
24. hooked up vaccume pump to top of regulator and started car. pressure while running was 42 psi. applied
18" of vaccume to the regulator with pump and watched pressure return to 38 psi. sure seems to me that the
regulator is working ok. tried to pinch off return line from regulator but seemed too stout to try to pinch
off. was going to see if regulator was bleeding fuel off abnormally.
25. at this time, im convinced that i need a fuel filter and or fuel pump. so i went and got both.
26. replaced fuel filter and pump.
27. heres where im stuck right now. looking at the top of the tank and find another sensor that is in the
wiring harness for the fuel pump. found out that it was called a fuel tank pressure sensor. cant find any
info on this part and its too late to call the dealer. the local parts stores dont even know what im
talking about. dont want to put the tank back up in the car until i find out if this sensor could, in any
way, contribute to my problem. so the tank is sitting with the new pump installed until i can get some info
on this sensor. if it could possibly be causing any of my symptoms, i want to change it now because i dont
want to pull the tank again. the haynes book is very vaugue about this sensor and cant find any info online
about it either. it mounts in the top of the tank about 4 inches away from the fuel pump lock down flange.
it has a 3 wire connection.
CAN ANYONE TELL ME ANYTHING ABOUT THIS SENSOR AND WHAT ITS PURPOSE IS? I DONT THINK THAT THE DEALER IS
GONNA BE ANY HELP TO ME . THEY ARE JUST GOING TO WANT ME TO PAY THEM TO CHECK IT. PLEASE HELP IF YOU CAN.
ALSO, IF YOU CAN THINK OF ANYTHING THAT IM MISSING ABOUT MY FUEL DELIVERY READINGS, PLEASE DO SO. I NEED
THE HELP.
MAYBE IM NOT APPROACHING THE PROBLEM IN THE CORRECT WAY. THE CAR SAT FOR 6 MONTHS BEFORE I BOUGHT IT . I
KNOW THAT IM GONNA HAVE TO ADDRESS SOME ISSUED LIKE THIS. THE OLD PUMP WAS THE FACTORY ONE WITH THE LONG
FORD NUMBER ON IT.
THANX FOR READING THIS LONG POST . I JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU AS MUCH INFO AS POSSIBLE ABOUT WHAT IM SEEING.
PS. CAME HOME AFTER CAR SETTING FOR OVER 24 HOURS AND KEY ON / MOTOR OFF PRESSURE WAS 32 PSI. THIS WAS
BEFORE I PULLED THE TANK AND REPLACED THE PUMP. IM REALLY CONFUSED ABOUT THE KEY ON / MOTOR OFF READINGS.
WOULD REALLY LIKE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THOSE READINGS AND WHAT WOULD CAUSE IT TO GO FROM 9
PSI TO 32 PSI OVER THE COURSE OF ABOUT 24 HOURS. THE CAR WAS WARM DURING SOME OF THE KEY ON/ MOTOR OFF
TESTS AND COLD FOR SOME OF THEM. ITS A PUZZLE TO ME. HOPE SOMEONE CAN SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS PROBLEM.
THANX IN ADVANCE FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE ME.
bevis28@insightbb.com
JOE
HELP ME.
1996 taurus GL 3.0L vin"U" non flex fuel OHV
ok, new to the forum and would really appreciate some help. i just bought a 96 taurus with 162k miles on it
with the check engine light on.
i have alot of skills on older mills but not this new injected stuff. i will describe what has happened to
me and what i have done in the following. if anyone can help, it would be greatly appreciated.
1 . CEL ( check engine light) throwing 340 code
2. removed cam position sensor only to find that it had failed and trashed the cam syncro
3. bought new syncro, cpm sensor and tool to index it.
4. marked the syncro against the intake and the sensor as best i could for repositioning of the new one.
5. used tool to index syncro 38deg. ccw of crank centerline and dropped it back in with tool attached so
that it met up with marks on intake that i had made
before removing the old one.
6. looked right on the money so i ran the hold down bolt in and removed the tool and installed the CPS and
put it back togeather.
7. now running into surging and stalling and just general bad performance. sometimes surges on idle for
about 500 rpm to 1200 rpm. after you rev it up a couple of times , idle surge go's away.
8. came out of hospital an hour after being there and started car and idle surges as described above.
corrected by reving motor couple of times.
9 drove 2 miles to wendys to eat.
10 . came out after about 30 mins and started car and it stalled. car was nose up on a hill. started again
and it stalled. held foot down on accelerator and started and it came up to about 2000 rpm and held it
there for a few seconds. card idled ok.
11. drove about 10 miles on freeway home.
12. pulling into driveway, stopped to let garage door finish opening. as i tipped into the throttle to pull
into the garage, the car stumbled and acted like it was going to stall. had to goose it a little to get it
into the garage.
13. at this time i feel that i have a fuel delivery problem. nobody around here knowledge on fords and the
dealer that is close to me wont even let me talk to one of their tech's. i went to the dealer to ask a tech
about what he thought and was treated like crap by the service mgr and was told that i would not be allowed
to talk to a tech. he just assumed that i was just another idiot that had no clue.
14. now it's up to me and the haynes manual. OH BOY.
15. bought fuel pressure tested for EFI ford testing and bought vaccume pump for testing. also new plugs.
16. ran compression test and #5 cylinder is a little low but i dont feel that it is causing the issue.
17. bear in mind that the car is not throwing any codes.
18. haynes manual says that key on / engine off fuel pressure should be 37-45 psi and running should be
26-45 psi.
19. had wife turn on ignition and watched fuel pressure - 9 psi. - WHAT ? - had her start the car and
pressure came up to about 38 psi. really confused now.
20. had her shut the engine off and waited about 30 seconds. turn ignition back on without motor running -
fuel pressure now 16 psi. - said to myself, what the hell ?
21. started car and observed normal fuel pressure. pulled vaccume line off of fuel regulator and fuel
pressure went up to 42 psi. looks good to me. put vaccume line back on and pressure dropped back to 38 psi.
at this time im thinkin that the regulator is ok but not sure.
22. after shutting off motor had her turn key back on without starting motor. fuel pressure now 25 psi.
GETTING MORE CONFUSED.
23. started motor and read how much vaccume was being applied to the regulator from the vaccume circuit. it
was 18".
24. hooked up vaccume pump to top of regulator and started car. pressure while running was 42 psi. applied
18" of vaccume to the regulator with pump and watched pressure return to 38 psi. sure seems to me that the
regulator is working ok. tried to pinch off return line from regulator but seemed too stout to try to pinch
off. was going to see if regulator was bleeding fuel off abnormally.
25. at this time, im convinced that i need a fuel filter and or fuel pump. so i went and got both.
26. replaced fuel filter and pump.
27. heres where im stuck right now. looking at the top of the tank and find another sensor that is in the
wiring harness for the fuel pump. found out that it was called a fuel tank pressure sensor. cant find any
info on this part and its too late to call the dealer. the local parts stores dont even know what im
talking about. dont want to put the tank back up in the car until i find out if this sensor could, in any
way, contribute to my problem. so the tank is sitting with the new pump installed until i can get some info
on this sensor. if it could possibly be causing any of my symptoms, i want to change it now because i dont
want to pull the tank again. the haynes book is very vaugue about this sensor and cant find any info online
about it either. it mounts in the top of the tank about 4 inches away from the fuel pump lock down flange.
it has a 3 wire connection.
CAN ANYONE TELL ME ANYTHING ABOUT THIS SENSOR AND WHAT ITS PURPOSE IS? I DONT THINK THAT THE DEALER IS
GONNA BE ANY HELP TO ME . THEY ARE JUST GOING TO WANT ME TO PAY THEM TO CHECK IT. PLEASE HELP IF YOU CAN.
ALSO, IF YOU CAN THINK OF ANYTHING THAT IM MISSING ABOUT MY FUEL DELIVERY READINGS, PLEASE DO SO. I NEED
THE HELP.
MAYBE IM NOT APPROACHING THE PROBLEM IN THE CORRECT WAY. THE CAR SAT FOR 6 MONTHS BEFORE I BOUGHT IT . I
KNOW THAT IM GONNA HAVE TO ADDRESS SOME ISSUED LIKE THIS. THE OLD PUMP WAS THE FACTORY ONE WITH THE LONG
FORD NUMBER ON IT.
THANX FOR READING THIS LONG POST . I JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU AS MUCH INFO AS POSSIBLE ABOUT WHAT IM SEEING.
PS. CAME HOME AFTER CAR SETTING FOR OVER 24 HOURS AND KEY ON / MOTOR OFF PRESSURE WAS 32 PSI. THIS WAS
BEFORE I PULLED THE TANK AND REPLACED THE PUMP. IM REALLY CONFUSED ABOUT THE KEY ON / MOTOR OFF READINGS.
WOULD REALLY LIKE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THOSE READINGS AND WHAT WOULD CAUSE IT TO GO FROM 9
PSI TO 32 PSI OVER THE COURSE OF ABOUT 24 HOURS. THE CAR WAS WARM DURING SOME OF THE KEY ON/ MOTOR OFF
TESTS AND COLD FOR SOME OF THEM. ITS A PUZZLE TO ME. HOPE SOMEONE CAN SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS PROBLEM.
THANX IN ADVANCE FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE ME.
bevis28@insightbb.com
JOE
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