95 Crown Vic intermittent coding P0171 and P0174 (Lean Banks 1 and 2) (Full Version)

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95 Crown Vic intermittent coding P0171 and P0174 (Lean Banks 1 and 2)

Bob Wells -> 95 Crown Vic intermittent coding P0171 and P0174 (Lean Banks 1 and 2) (12/9/2006 1:28:01 PM)
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen, This is my first post in this forum so hello to all of you. I have a 1995 Crown Vic LX with 175k miles on it. I first noticed the intermittent problem as a single or double clunk when it shifts from 2nd to 3rd and from 3rd to overdrive. I read the engine codes and they were P0171 and P0174 which are the lean condition for banks 1 and 2. Also spit out a P0307 (Cylinder 7 misfire) a few times. I replaced the fuel filter as it had been in there quite a while. No change. Also had the tranny pan and torque converter dumped and new filter as fluid looked to be a pale pink with slight yellow cast. Bottom of tranny pan was very clean. Also added Lubegard Red. Not much improvement but thats ok cause I wanted to have it changed regardless. Found nasty looking thick coolant in plug holes 1 and 3 from previously leaking thermostat housing. Cleaned out all plug holes (fair amount of dirt in all) and cleaned boots thoroughly. Stopped throwing the cylinder 7 misfire. Gently cleaned MAF sensor with Windex spray and blew dry. Now the engine runs as smooth as silk most of the time and the tranny shifts so smoothly you can't tell except from egine rpm. However a couple of times a day it starts running rough again for a few minutes, looses about 1/3 power and throws both lean codes... and clunks between gears(although not as bad). Got a Actron fuel pressure gauge and it was 31 psi engine running and the same with engine off and key on. Read it two days later and it was 40 psi key on and 31 engine running. Possible bad fuel pump? I have been trying to catch it in the rough idle mode and check pressure but have been unable to so far. Replaced the fuel pump relay, no difference. Checked for leaks in intake manifold but the carb spray disappears so quick that I can't tell if it is being sucked in or just evaporates. Is it ok to use water in a spray bottle? Also checked clamps to air intake valve. One has hold clamp so I tightened it , no diff. The other clamp cannot be tightened as it has no screw. Could this be a leak source? Also there is a black tube about 3/4 inch diameter that comes in at 90 degrees into a bubber boot that just seems to be a press fit. Does it need a clamp? My other questions would be how long do fuel pumps normally last and is 31 psi marginal for running pressure? Since the car is so old and has so many miles on it what sensors if any might i look at replacing? Four months ago it threw some egr codes for a few weeks but none since. Any other ideas? Thank You, Bob

Malibu Barbie -> RE: 95 Crown Vic intermittent coding P0171 and P0174 (Lean Banks 1 and 2) (12/17/2006 12:03:40 AM)
Welcome, Bob! There's several different things than can cause your lean air/fuel mixture problem. Here's the areas I'd like to address to try to help you: Air Filter - When was the last time it was replaced? Bad fuel pump? Yes, that's possible, as well as a leaking FPR. When the fuel pump starts to go bad, it'll usually make a constant buzzing noise - have you heard anything unusual? Also, did you use a fuel pressure gauge to check the pressure at idle while the engine is warm? Fuel Injectors - How old are they? Are they leaking? Have you tried using a fuel additive to clean the injectors? Remember that you usually have to run a full tank of gas with the additive before you get the best results. Vacuum Leaks - Did you use a vacuum gauge? You said that 4 months ago, the ECU threw an EGR code, but none since. I'm thinking your current problem might be within the vacuum lines AFTER the EGR valve. The hoses that are most prone to deteriorate are those that are subjected to the most heat. Be sure to especially check all hoses that are closest to the exhaust, as well as all hoses at or near the PCV. MAF Sensor - You cleaned it with Windex? I would have never used Windex - only an electronic cleaner. Hope you didn't damage it. Oxygen Sensor - It could be that you have a bad 02, but feel this is doubtful since you're throwing codes in 2 banks.

wheelsup68 -> RE: 95 Crown Vic intermittent coding P0171 and P0174 (Lean Banks 1 and 2) (12/17/2006 2:29:31 PM)
Cleaning your MAF with windex is okay. I would bet that you have a leaking intake/intake gasket. I know this is expensive, but thats what I would be replacing if I owned a Ford with lean burn codes. This of course is only if this is plastic intake on 4.6

Bob Wells -> RE: 95 Crown Vic intermittent coding P0171 and P0174 (Lean Banks 1 and 2) (12/17/2006 4:16:45 PM)
ORIGINAL: Malibu Barbie Thank You for the detailed , helpful reply Barbie. Welcome, Bob! There's several different things than can cause your lean air/fuel mixture problem. Here's the areas I'd like to address to try to help you: Air Filter - When was the last time it was replaced? about 4 months ago. It still looks pretty decent Bad fuel pump? Yes, that's possible, as well as a leaking FPR. When the fuel pump starts to go bad, it'll usually make a constant buzzing noise - have you heard anything unusual? Also, did you use a fuel pressure gauge to check the pressure at idle while the engine is warm? No buzzing or other noises from fuel pump. FPR (fuel pump relay?) replaced four days ago, no difference. Yes I measured fuel pressure several times with engine warm, always 31 psi. Compared it to my 1997 Town Car which was 32 psi. Fuel Injectors? How old are they? Not sure, they might be the originals. How do i know for sure? Are they leaking? Not that I can see. Have you tried using a fuel additive to clean the injectors? Remember that you usually have to run a full tank of gas with the additive before you get the best results. Two tanks with Chevron Fuel system/injector cleaner, no difference. Vacuum Leaks - Did you use a vacuum gauge? I have a vacuum gauge but have not used it yet. Very good idea! I assume I tee in at different places and wiggle the associated hoses and fittings. You said that 4 months ago, the ECU threw an EGR code, but none since. I'm thinking your current problem might be within the vacuum lines AFTER the EGR valve. The hoses that are most prone to deteriorate are those that are subjected to the most heat. Be sure to especially check all hoses that are closest to the exhaust, as well as all hoses at or near the PCV. I'll give close scrutiny to the hoses after the egr. New PVC, no difference, fit in boot was fairly snug. Hose looked to be in good shape. I will have a closer look. Oh WOW I just looked at the hose going from the pcv and followed it back to the base of the air intake and guess what I found!!!! A big fat puncture or dry rot hole. I will repair and post back the results. Thanks a million Malibu Barbie! MAF Sensor - You cleaned it with Windex? I would have never used Windex - only an electronic cleaner. Hope you didn't damage it. I read online in two places that Windex was ok. Only electronic cleaner I had contained lubricant, a no-no. I sprayed it with Windex until it was pristine clean, then used spray bottle with distilled water to rinse it and then air blew it dry. Engine ran very smooth and strong after that but still had periods when it went into stumble/power loss mode. Oxygen Sensor - It could be that you have a bad 02, but feel this is doubtful since you're throwing codes in 2 banks. Same thinking here Thank You, Bob

wheelsup68 -> RE: 95 Crown Vic intermittent coding P0171 and P0174 (Lean Banks 1 and 2) (12/17/2006 4:22:56 PM)
My bad, I just as soon assumed that you had ruled out vacum leaks associated with the hoses? Oh well that hose could b causing your problem as well.

Malibu Barbie -> RE: 95 Crown Vic intermittent coding P0171 and P0174 (Lean Banks 1 and 2) (12/17/2006 7:29:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bob Wells *You said that 4 months ago, the ECU threw an EGR code, but none since. I'm thinking your current problem might be within the vacuum lines AFTER the EGR valve. The hoses that are most prone to deteriorate are those that are subjected to the most heat. Be sure to especially check all hoses that are closest to the exhaust, as well as all hoses at or near the PCV. Oh WOW I just looked at the hose going from the pcv and followed it back to the base of the air intake and guess what I found!!!! A big fat puncture or dry rot hole. I will repair and post back the results. Thanks a million Malibu Barbie! Awesome, Bob! I'm anxious to find out how she runs after you replace that hose and whether she still throws any codes.

Bob Wells -> RE: 95 Crown Vic intermittent coding P0171 and P0174 (Lean Banks 1 and 2) (12/17/2006 8:40:49 PM)
"I would bet that you have a leaking intake/intake gasket. I know this is expensive, but thats what I would be replacing if I owned a Ford with lean burn codes. This of course is only if this is plastic intake on 4.6" ORIGINAL: wheelsup68 "My bad, I just as soon assumed that you had ruled out vacum leaks associated with the hoses? Oh well that hose could b causing your problem as well." Thank you for the help. I do have a metal manifold but was thinking about leaks there anyway. Couldn't tell if the carb spray was getting sucked in around the gasket or if it was just evaporating fast due to heat. No change in rpms when I sprayed it though. Can I use water in a spray bottle sparingly? I still have a coolant leak that came back several days after tightening down the thermostat housing so I'm hoping a new housing gasket will take care of it and that it's not the intake manifold as the ford dealer suggested. As to the pcv hose it was my failure to follow the darn thing back to the base of what I guess might be called the air intake assembly just above where it bolts to the manifold. I guess I thought since the rigid tube and the hose stub going to the PCV were in great shape the hose stub on the other end would be ok too. [image]local://upfiles/8563/756EDFFDDE8A4EDFA7A2794729FC454C.jpg[/image] As you can see it looks almost like a puncture but i guess this is how a hose under vacuum for 174K miles in the Arizona heat for 11 years fails. I allmost looks like it just got sucked in until it split. My thank go out to you and Malibu Barbie for your posts. In almost two weeks of posting on newsgroups and forums I hardly got any useful info at all. I've driven it about 70 miles in different conditions since replacing the hose with no codes and it had been throwing codes after 5 or 10 miles recently so I've got my fingers crossed. Thanks, Bob [image]local://upfiles/8563/27CB92ED100447C5B03728CD965311A7.jpg[/image]

Bob Wells -> RE: 95 Crown Vic intermittent coding P0171 and P0174 (Lean Banks 1 and 2) (12/17/2006 9:00:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Malibu Barbie quote: ORIGINAL: Bob Wells *You said that 4 months ago, the ECU threw an EGR code, but none since. I'm thinking your current problem might be within the vacuum lines AFTER the EGR valve. The hoses that are most prone to deteriorate are those that are subjected to the most heat. Be sure to especially check all hoses that are closest to the exhaust, as well as all hoses at or near the PCV. Oh WOW I just looked at the hose going from the pcv and followed it back to the base of the air intake and guess what I found!!!! A big fat puncture or dry rot hole. I will repair and post back the results. Thanks a million Malibu Barbie! Awesome, Bob! I'm anxious to find out how she runs after you replace that hose and whether she still throws any codes. Hello Barbie, Please see pics in post above. After 70 miles of varied driving she is code free. Lately she had been throwing codes consistently after 5 to 10 miles so I'm very hopeful. She also runs very smooth and stronger than before. Thanks so much for getting me to take a second look! Thank You! Bob

wheelsup68 -> RE: 95 Crown Vic intermittent coding P0171 and P0174 (Lean Banks 1 and 2) (12/17/2006 9:19:23 PM)
Glad it sound like things are going well

Malibu Barbie -> RE: 95 Crown Vic intermittent coding P0171 and P0174 (Lean Banks 1 and 2) (12/17/2006 9:24:56 PM)
[sm=happy046.gif] That's great news, Bob! I'm glad we were able to help you.

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