Windows - Diagram or advanced help needed
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Windows - Diagram or advanced help needed - 1/28/2008 10:32:03 PM
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JC
Posts: 2
Score: 0
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline
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'98 Explorer
All windows won't work, won't go up or down, but everything else in the truck (that I can think of) works still.
I searched around the forum and couldn't find what I needed in the other window posts. It doesn't seem to be the relay many people mentioned here or on usenet
No noise, no lights flickering, tried using all door switches and window lock switch is in correct position.
The condensed version of the following is that I could really use a wiring diagram for the whole window circuit and to know exactly what the GEM is, where it is, and what part it plays in the circuit, as well as how to check the master window button panel, and to know if I've overlooked anything else.
I checked all fuses and I *think* all relays (side of dash, under hood, and in module under dash). There were only two models of relays so I tried swapping them around (both the smaller ones and the larger 1" cubic part # F0AZ14N089A under the dash, but no luck. I wouldn't say the fuse and relay contacts were completely clean but looked in good shape, truck is garage kept and in pretty good condition. Does anyone have a diagram of the under dash relays and the wiring diagram for that relay box?
I have a fair amount of electrical / electronics skill including some test equipment but don't know where to check next. I could end up tearing apart the whole door and ripping off all the wiring wrap from the main box under the hood all the way to the motor in vain because it's not so easy for me to trace wrapped and bundled wires. I was hoping someone has a wiring diagram or schematic, or at least a description of the whole circuit from the battery to the window motors (please a very clear description without abbreviations, for example I have no idea if a GEM is just a plastic box with relays in it or a controller circuit board or something else?) I looked in the owners manual and on Autozone's website but didn't see anything.
I probed around a bit and took the driver's side door panel off hoping to see a connector but only saw a wiring harness. I guess the connector to the master window button panel is down inside the door? If/when I get that off (if necessary), does anyone know the pinout for the master window switch harness connector?
I apologize to the person who posted the following numbered list because if I remembered who it was I would give them credit but here is a list of things someone said it might be a while ago, and my comments or questions about these:
If all windows are inoperative, then in order of likelyhood:
1. Power window master switch on drivers door.
How does this fail? I mean does it's failure prevent the other passenger door switches from working? Can you visually or audibly tell it has failed? It looks clear and button feedback pressure is normal. Does anyone know the pinout or wiring color designations for this so I can more easily probe it with a multimeter without having to completely disassemble it (if that's even possible?)? Is there any danger in just taking a length of wire with a 10A fuse in the middle and connecting a few of the contacts on the back together to see if it opens any windows? Does the switch panel in the door directly power the windows or does it energize a relay for each one? If it energizes a relay are those the other smaller relays in the box under the dash?
2. Accessory delay relay
Is this the 1" cubed, only larger relay module in the box under the dash? I swapped this with another one from the under-hood box with no luck. I do hear one (I think only one) relay energize under the dash when I turn the key just before starting the truck. As far as I can tell, I hear no new relay sounds when I press a window-switch button on the door but I don't know if I should hear anything then.
3. GEM Control module.
What exactly is this, where, what does it look like, and what can go wrong with it? I hope for all the information you can provide because there is a good chance I can even repair this if it is a circuit board component failure, if only I had some info about the general wiring scheme and logic used to get windows working (LOL!).
4. Circuit problem - bad, broken wire, etc.
The wires look fairly hard to trace, is it true that with a given color + stripe color, this color combination will only be used from one point to the next, never reused from the 2nd point to somewhere else or from the 1st point to somewhere besides the 2nd point?
What would be easier for me to do is check continuity from connectors to fuse and relay sockets, etc, with a jumper wire and multimeter if I had the wiring diagram. I had even begun to check for 12V at the fuses but then realized I need a diagram to know where to look next.
Thanks for your help,
JC
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