95 no start (Full Version)

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95 no start

  

billybroncojr -> 95 no start (8/11/2005 6:18:14 PM)

Hi,
Ok here's the problem; 95 Taurus 3.0l won't start. This car has 140k on it, and other than a tune up I didn't figure it needed anything. I just picked it up so I don't know the cars history. It was running well, then the other morning I got to work and it was steaming. I checked it out before I came home and it had only blown a couple cups of water out. I noticed that the water pump was leaking, water was dripping off the bottom. I've run my 94 almost dry without overheating so I didn't figure I was going to have a problem. Wrong, the bearing in the water pump went south and really started leaking. The batt. light came on and the steering was getting stiff so I figured the belt was slipping due to water leakage. I was watching the temp gauge and it never got past the "m" which is just slightly over half. I finally pulled over after about 10 miles to let things cool off and see if the belt was still on, when I started slowing down the oil light and check engine light came on, like when you first turn the key on. With the steam and lack of power steering I assumed it stalled although I'm not 100% on that. I popped the hood and the fan was running and steaming everywhere. When I stopped I turned the key off out of habit, then turned it back on to keep the fans running. The belt was off the pulleys so I pulled it the rest of the way off. I then tried to restart it and pull it up under a tree to help the cooling off process. It turns over but won't start.
That brings me to where I am now. I initially thought that maybe the timing chain jumped a tooth based on the odd sound the motor makes when it turns over. I don't think that anymore, but at this point have no clue why it won't start or why it sounds odd. I put the timing light on it and it comes on, so I have spark, where it is suppose to, the distributor is moving and I have gas in the fuel rails. So I have fuel and spark which rules out a lot of things, but it still won't start. The fuel pump is kicking on with the key and comparing side by side with my 94 most of the underhood relays sound like they are doing the same thing on both cars, only one runs and one doesn't. There is no coolant on the oil dipstick either.

Just a history on myself: I've been working on vehicles for 20 years, and am most familiar with Ford vehicles. I had a 72 Bronco that I did all kinds of stuff to, I've kept my Ranger running since I bought it new in 88, I brought a 87 Bronco II back from the dead, my wife had a 93 Exploder that I never had to do a thing to but I still became familiar with through maintainence. I can usually figure out mechanical stuff, and most times electrical stuff, but I don't know enough about the sensors and what they all do on these type of vehicles.

That is where I am at right now, I am thinking that the hot coolant got onto a sensor or something and fried it. I'm reaching here because after spending an evening figuring out what isn't wrong I need some help. I prefer to figure this out on my own but I realize the advantages of taking it somewhere. At the current time, I don't have to have this car running so it is easier for me to mess with it myself. Post something and I will try it. If you need more info I will supply it.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

  
cctxfish -> RE: 95 no start (8/11/2005 10:06:31 PM)

I'm not to sure how you are testing you have ignition spark. But I was thinking that if the belt came off, maybe it caused the connector at the crank pos. sensor or cam pos. sensor to have come off causing your no start. Have you tried starter fuild down the throttle plate? if it starts for a little you'll know your no getting fuel in, maybe something with injector signal? Anyway my guess it that the belt cut a wire or disconnected a connector somewhere. Get back with us [;)]

Ramrod48 -> RE: 95 no start (8/12/2005 1:18:37 AM)

Well this one sounds like its going to be fun !!!!! , Whats bothering me is the noise. you see my neibour's daughter did about the same thing 2 yrs ago. on a 88 model I think . what I found was when I pulled the spark plugs out , #1an #3 sparkplug on the head closet's to you when you open the hood , an cranked the motor over it spit water out those cyl's.An it didnt have water in the oil for about 3 days after it died .Of course I cant hear the noise but by chance if you pull the plug wires off, Assuming its firing does the noise change any at all ?I know Iam reaching here but thinking maybe a bent rod ????? An of course my favorite, on these girls if the pick-up in the Dist. has gone bad it will spark while you got the key held in the start postion. but as soon as you release the key to the run postion you loose fire.. Yea excessive Heat , an then A scallding Hot Water bath sure dont do real good on elec. stuff .Oh is the cooling system full of water rite now ? On her's the cracks in the heads were between the valves so it was filling the cyl , an then pushing most of it out the exhaust as the valve opened, it wasnt running so it was slowly filing up the Cat . Converters an Muffler

Ramrod48 -> RE: 95 no start (8/12/2005 1:24:47 AM)

Hey , CCTXFISH , do you recall when these cars went to a DIS Ign., system ?

billybroncojr -> RE: 95 no start (8/12/2005 10:21:58 AM)

I tested the ignition spark with the timing light and pulled a plug out and grounded it on the block, there was spark. I don't believe there is a crank position sensor on this year 3.0, it still has the distributor. The belt didn't break, it just came off the water pump in one piece. When the key is turned on I can hear the fuel pump start and can hear pressure building up in the fuel pressure regulator. I don't know if it's getting past there, but I assume.

The water pump is off so there is minimal coolant in the system. I did change the plugs considering how the one looked that I pulled out to test looked. I didn't really figure this was going to help, but I couldn't help myself after seeing how bad they were. I only cranked the motor over with the one plug out, the number 5 I believe, there wasn't anything coming out the hole there, but that sounds like as good of an idea as I've heard yet. The guage didn't read hot, but that doesn't always mean anything.

I was thinking about how to describe the sound. I can't find a good way to describe it. It's not grinding or scraping or banging, but when things are right, it sounds smooth everything that's turning inside is meshed and lubricated and tight and this just has kind of a whiny sound. Not like things are bound up or not wanting to turn, but just not a natural smooth sound. That's the best I can do for right now on the sound.

I won't be back on here until Sat. sometime, but please keep the info coming.
Sat I will pull the front plugs and check for water and post the results.

Thanks again,
Jeff

cctxfish -> RE: 95 no start (8/12/2005 2:02:08 PM)

Ramrod, I thought most DIS's started just before OBDII came out, sometime '88-'96 now known as EI.

Billy, I found one way to test for blow head gasket is to have a coolant system pressure gauge installed with all the plugs in and crank engine over a min. or so. The pressure tester will have increased pressure if gasket is blown in most cases. But, I see that you have pump off so that won't help. If you have spark and know you have fuel, then install a noide light on one of the injector's connector, the light should strobe (on/off flashes). Let us know if you have injector signal.

Ramrod48 -> RE: 95 no start (8/12/2005 11:48:05 PM)

Ok , I dont fool with many Taurus, with the back problem its hard to get up after being bent over them , The Dist. thing was sounding kinda odd, But He's got one ,,,,, Back to the noise ? This is fun guess that noise ??? SOUNDS LIKE ???? LOL SORRY , Just had to put that there .

billybroncojr -> RE: 95 no start (8/15/2005 6:17:33 PM)

I had a chance to check a few things out over the weekend and I am still at a loss with this thing. I put new plugs, cap, rotor on, made sure the timing was 10 BTDC, pulled a new plug and it has gas on it. When I try and start it I can hear the exhaust, not like it's trying to start really but like everything is moving like it is suppose to and the exhuast valves are opening. I was going to remove the valve cover but didn't have a 8mm deepwell or anything similar that would work.

Some of my thoughts: If I have spark and fuel at the right time, it should start. I have run my 2.9 on four cyl. after not paying attention during a tune-up. My point is, if I have 3-4 cyl. working the motor should start, granted it won't run well, but it should start.
I have never seen a motor that wouldn't start because of a blown head gasket. I'm not ruling that out, but at this point I think it's unlikely. If I HAD a blown head gasket and had water in a cyl. I think the other 4 or 5 would still fire, yes?
I'm fairly sure the motor quit when the belt came off, that is why I assumed if I put it back on it would start. I put it back on but the water pump pulley was wobbling real bad and I'm not sure how well everything was turning. I think I am really reaching with this one mainly because the day before when my water pump did the same thing on the 94, I pulled the belt off then had to move the car and it started fine, without the belt.
I'm thinking at this point of putting a water pump on it and putting everything back together and calling the shop to come get it and fix it. I think it is beyond my experiance and tool capacity. I hate when these things get the better of me!!!

Later,
Jeff

Ramrod48 -> RE: 95 no start (8/15/2005 10:55:32 PM)

Hey do you have a MAF , on the intake , if its not plugged in , or the hose is off the intake ,, or if it went KAPUT , that would keep it from running

Ramrod48 -> RE: 95 no start (8/16/2005 9:38:24 AM)

On the subject of the head gaskit , IF the water pump was still on an you had several cyl. filled with coolant , NO the engine would not start , the engine cannot compress a liquid . I have had this very thing happen on more than a few motors, Thats having the cyl full of water .. Now you can have a blown gaskit an it NOT fill the cyl , then it would start .

  

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