2008 E-150 , Intermittent no crank
#1
03-11-2020, 09:09 PM
2008 E-150 , Intermittent no crank
Hi
I have a 2008 Ford E-150 with 304k miles on it. Most of the time it is reliable and starts right up. But once a week or so it will not crank and won’t start, all the dash lights are on, nothing is abnormal except it won’t crank. If I come back in 4 hours or the next morning, it starts.
It’s been to the shop multiple times for this issue, they always fix something but never resolve the issue. The last time it was in the shop (1 month ago) they sealed the windshield and opened the console and replaced some corroded wires, I was told.
The last time the no crank happened (last week on a clear day at 4 pm) I checked all the fuses and relays and made sure all were tight. I wiggled all the wiring connectors on the ecu and the components below the back floor near the spare tire. I jiggled the key in the ignition switch , I tried moving the shifter to Neutral or Park or anywhere in-between with key in start position, I was thinking the shift position sensor might be bad or failing but no crank.
None of the above wiggling or seating electric connections would cause the E-150 to crank and start. So I let the van sit overnight, came back early the next morning (cold damp) and it STARTED RIGHT UP!
I used to think this was moisture related as it would often happen on rainy days. But not always.
I saw a YouTube video about very similar symptoms but on a F-150. In that case it is the fuel pump driver module that sits above the rear axle. I don’t think the E150 has that same fuel pump driver module problem . I tried to reproduce the problem by spraying water up around the rear axle and fuel tank area , but all that water didn’t cause a failure to start.
If anyone has a clue to what’s causing this , please pass it along. This is very frustrating but I’m also very curious what is causing this intermittent no start condition.
Thanks a lot !
I have a 2008 Ford E-150 with 304k miles on it. Most of the time it is reliable and starts right up. But once a week or so it will not crank and won’t start, all the dash lights are on, nothing is abnormal except it won’t crank. If I come back in 4 hours or the next morning, it starts.
It’s been to the shop multiple times for this issue, they always fix something but never resolve the issue. The last time it was in the shop (1 month ago) they sealed the windshield and opened the console and replaced some corroded wires, I was told.
The last time the no crank happened (last week on a clear day at 4 pm) I checked all the fuses and relays and made sure all were tight. I wiggled all the wiring connectors on the ecu and the components below the back floor near the spare tire. I jiggled the key in the ignition switch , I tried moving the shifter to Neutral or Park or anywhere in-between with key in start position, I was thinking the shift position sensor might be bad or failing but no crank.
None of the above wiggling or seating electric connections would cause the E-150 to crank and start. So I let the van sit overnight, came back early the next morning (cold damp) and it STARTED RIGHT UP!
I used to think this was moisture related as it would often happen on rainy days. But not always.
I saw a YouTube video about very similar symptoms but on a F-150. In that case it is the fuel pump driver module that sits above the rear axle. I don’t think the E150 has that same fuel pump driver module problem . I tried to reproduce the problem by spraying water up around the rear axle and fuel tank area , but all that water didn’t cause a failure to start.
If anyone has a clue to what’s causing this , please pass it along. This is very frustrating but I’m also very curious what is causing this intermittent no start condition.
Thanks a lot !
Last edited by Fordtwo; 03-12-2020 at 05:41 AM.
#2
03-11-2020, 11:01 PM
Welcome to the site..
With that many miles, the starter motor replaced.. Yes/No.
On a no start event,, did you try cranking it in Neutral?
You might also swap one of the other 'alike' relays in the BJB (battery junction box) with the starter relay and see if there's an improvement/fix.
The PCM controls the grounding function for the starter relay, could be an issue there as well..
With that many miles, the starter motor replaced.. Yes/No.
On a no start event,, did you try cranking it in Neutral?
You might also swap one of the other 'alike' relays in the BJB (battery junction box) with the starter relay and see if there's an improvement/fix.
The PCM controls the grounding function for the starter relay, could be an issue there as well..
#3
03-12-2020, 06:03 AM
Thanks for your response.
Yes, I have tried moving the shifter to Neutral and everywhere in between and turning the key but did not make a difference, it wouldn’t crank.
I haven’t changed the starter and the previous owner has no recollection of changing it either. Can a starter have a bad spot or bad position that causes it not to work but after sitting 4-8 hours it will work ?
But your question about the starter makes me think:
a) When no-crank happens, is the solenoid getting 12v on the small terminal when the key is turned? If yes , then the solenoid or starter is bad. I will test this next time it happens.
b) if the starter is getting 12v on the thin solenoid wire/terminal, what happens if I jumper from battery terminal on solenoid to big terminal on starter motor?.
Will test that Scenario too.
Good idea about swapping like modules in the battery control box.
Where is the PCM ?
Yes, I have tried moving the shifter to Neutral and everywhere in between and turning the key but did not make a difference, it wouldn’t crank.
I haven’t changed the starter and the previous owner has no recollection of changing it either. Can a starter have a bad spot or bad position that causes it not to work but after sitting 4-8 hours it will work ?
But your question about the starter makes me think:
a) When no-crank happens, is the solenoid getting 12v on the small terminal when the key is turned? If yes , then the solenoid or starter is bad. I will test this next time it happens.
b) if the starter is getting 12v on the thin solenoid wire/terminal, what happens if I jumper from battery terminal on solenoid to big terminal on starter motor?.
Will test that Scenario too.
Good idea about swapping like modules in the battery control box.
Where is the PCM ?
#4
03-12-2020, 09:42 AM
Yes on the cold soak, sit times..
On aged or high mileage starters the brushes can be worn out, stick or hang up, and make intermittent contact. On worn brushes the the brushes tension spring/s can no longer provide enough ‘push’ against the brush and contact to the rotor slip rings is lost.. Usually if that’s the case on a dying starter,, you can either give the starter a hefty bump with a hard object prior to a crank attempt, or better, is to give it a whack while someone holds the key in the start position. Many times they snap to life, but if so need to be replaced. If that starter is original, Id be suspect of it.
If that doesn’t help on a no start event , or to prove out everything north of the starter, take a test light and with a helper check for voltage on the yellow/light blue wire during a crank attempt. If voltage is there, good chance the starter is bad. If missing, possibly the relay (if a swap doesn’t correct the issue) , or the PCM.
If it gets to that point, I can help you check for all the needed power distribution and ground check points on the relays socket/connector. PCM is by the brake booster, but I wouldn’t go there yet..
On aged or high mileage starters the brushes can be worn out, stick or hang up, and make intermittent contact. On worn brushes the the brushes tension spring/s can no longer provide enough ‘push’ against the brush and contact to the rotor slip rings is lost.. Usually if that’s the case on a dying starter,, you can either give the starter a hefty bump with a hard object prior to a crank attempt, or better, is to give it a whack while someone holds the key in the start position. Many times they snap to life, but if so need to be replaced. If that starter is original, Id be suspect of it.
If that doesn’t help on a no start event , or to prove out everything north of the starter, take a test light and with a helper check for voltage on the yellow/light blue wire during a crank attempt. If voltage is there, good chance the starter is bad. If missing, possibly the relay (if a swap doesn’t correct the issue) , or the PCM.
If it gets to that point, I can help you check for all the needed power distribution and ground check points on the relays socket/connector. PCM is by the brake booster, but I wouldn’t go there yet..
Last edited by Hayapower; 03-12-2020 at 09:50 AM.
#7
03-16-2020, 09:35 PM
Well the no crank happened again and so per your suggestion, I started investigating the starter. I hooked up the 12v test lamp to the small wire on the coil and sure enough it lit up whenever I hit the key but no cranking. The braided copper wire from the big terminal to the starter motor looks sort of blue and corroded so I took off the nut to check it. When I had one end free it broke in two.
I ordered a new starter and installed it today. The first time figuring out what combination of air impact wrench and swivel joint socket is necessary to reach the top two bolts was challenging but I got it.
Thanks very much for your advice !!
I ordered a new starter and installed it today. The first time figuring out what combination of air impact wrench and swivel joint socket is necessary to reach the top two bolts was challenging but I got it.
Thanks very much for your advice !!