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2002 F250 Power Windows and AM/ FM

  #1  
Old 10-10-2009, 05:09 PM
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Default 2002 F250 Power Windows and AM/ FM

Hello all, I am having a problem that I have been fighting for over a year. My 02 Powerstroke looses power to the power windows and the radio at any given time. Sometimes for a few minutes and some times for a few days. I used to be able to get it working by just hitting the dash but not any more. Its always both the windows and radio at the same time. Ive tried replacing the window relay, cleaning the battery posts, wiggling wires and grounds to get it to come back on and nothing has worked. It just comes back on when ever it wants. Im a drive with the windows down kind of guy but I dont dare because I dont know if I'll loose power before I need to roll them up. PLEASE HELP. Thanks
 
  #2  
Old 10-10-2009, 09:00 PM
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anybody?
 
  #3  
Old 10-11-2009, 01:06 AM
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The way that power is distributed to the P/W's and radio is through a 'battery saver' relay (integrated into the instrument cluster, and is not servicable) and the instrument cluster also has a micro processor built in to control the battery saver and accessory relays ground leg on the coil side of the relay. When a ground is supplied, the relays magnetic coil will pull the relay contacts closed and complete the circuit or 12v flow on out to the Accesory delay relay in the Central Junction Fuse box (CJB)..

Couple test you can try when it drops out are....

First,, pull the accessory delay relay out, and check for 'Hot at all times' voltage on the #30 leg 'inside' the relays plug (the relay legs are generally numbered on the backside of the relay).. If it test out ok, then cycle the key to On and check for 12v on the #85 connector leg.. There should be power there (#85) if the battery saver relay has been commanded closed.. If either of the relay legs are dead, double check the two 10amp fuses in the CJB.. Try wiggling them when operating the windows.. I've seen a few cases when fuse taps/splices that damage the fuse connections from over spreading the fuse contacts.. The #86 should be a 'grounding' leg on the accessory delay relay connector if the micro processor is still in control..

Being that you used to be able to give the dash a 'love tap' and the systems would work for some time makes me lean towards the cluster/proccessor failing, but could be a power distribution problem from a fuse/contact.. Water intrusion into the back of the GEM module and running on down in to the back of the CJB causing corrosion issues was a common problem too, but usually will make for some weird operations..

Last.. If/when the system drops out,, remove the relay and use a test wire/lead and 'bridge' the #30 and #87 relay connections.. This will take the battery saver/accessory relays out of the equation and the windows and radio should come back on.. But only as a test..

Here's a quick diagram on the legs to 12v test, then a connection to bridge as a test..
 
Attached Thumbnails 2002 F250 Power Windows and AM/ FM-dscf0019.jpg  
  #4  
Old 10-11-2009, 11:38 AM
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Thank You very much, I'm headed out to the garage to run through these tests right now. I'll let you know what I find.
 
  #5  
Old 10-11-2009, 12:34 PM
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I found something.

1. Pulled relay and checked voltage on # 30 leg... Tested good, has power.
2. With key in on position checked voltage on # 85 leg...Tested bad, no voltage.
3. Checked all 10 amp. fuses... all check good.
4. Checked #86 leg to make sure it is grounded...it is.
5. Used jumper wire from 87 to 30 and windows and radio worked fine.
After all that, what do you think? And again thank you very much for your time and knowledge.
 
  #6  
Old 10-11-2009, 03:59 PM
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If there's no 12v current on the #85 leg then there's 'either' an issue at the #41/10 amp fuse as it supplies 12v to the magnetic coil (current passes through when the battery saver relay is closed, and if it's good ) for the accessory delay relay to close it's contacts which in turn supplies load power distributions.. Or, possibly a circuit/ground issue.. My bet is that the battery saver relay is bad since there 'appears' to be a good grounding control to the relays from the micro prosessor, but only a guess..

If the processor or battery saver is failed, the fix would normally be a new/reman/used cluster.. Or, you can do a temp fix by adding a 12v wire (fused for 10amps) either onto the #85 leg of the relay, or, on the wire (LG/YE) coming out of the back of the CJB.. It should be 12v power with the KEY ON/ACC but you will loose the battery saver functions if a jumper is used..

If you add a temp wire, and the grounding is still good to/for the relays the radio and windows should work as before, but with no 'timed ON control' with the doors closed and the ignition off.. Or any battery saver function should interior lamps be left on ect....
 
  #7  
Old 10-11-2009, 06:22 PM
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Heres one for ya. I just went back out to give it another look. I turned the key on and the radio came on, no shocker it has its days when things work as supposed to. I figured I would check leg 85 now, it should have power now if everything is working right? It doesnt, I popped the relay back in and the radio is still in work mode. I repeated al this 2 more times and still no power to 85. I also noticed in the fuse block a # 42 15amp that says something about batt. saver. Its good by the way. Out of all this you have no idea how good it is just to know a way to get the windows back up if I have to. Thanks
 
  #8  
Old 01-10-2010, 12:04 AM
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I am having a similar issue i was working on a mod to add heated mirrors to my 03 F250 all seemed to be going well tapped the blue black wire on the window switch and noew my windows do not work took the tap off and still nothing could i have blown the relay? all fuses are good and how can i go about getting my windows up?
used your bridge wire idea and the windows went up
which is good seeing i live in a cold climate

sounds to me like just the relay any ideas?

replaced the relay and still nothing works should i start to look for a new cluster?
 

Last edited by fatfender48; 01-11-2010 at 02:40 PM.
  #9  
Old 02-27-2010, 09:52 PM
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Default 2002 expedition

Battery saver Module. All the problems (no power windows, inside lights, windshield wipers). Fuse # 14 blows as fast as you put them in. Will not blow when battery saver relay is pulled. Any way to completly do away with the relay? Hate to replace the GEM module. The part stores do not reconize "GEM" module.
 
  #10  
Old 09-12-2010, 08:14 PM
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Default I have the same problem

I have had the same problem for 2 years now. really getting bad here lately. my truck is an 03 so it has the VSM instead of the GEM. I replaced it and thought it was better but its old tricks came back. does any one know what connector the LG/YE wire goes into? cant find any wire on back of fuse block that has continuity to terminal 85 on delay acc relay.
 

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