RPM's stay high before dropping - weeks trying to fix
I'll keep a long story as short as possible:
2003 Escape XLT Manual Trans. 2.0L 4cyl
My RPM's were staying crazy high ....4k-5k switching gears Throttle body was in terrible shape and clearly sticking.
I had a new one put in along with a new IAC valve. Also found out my throttle cable was bent and frayed. Replaced it.
My clutch failed (180k on car) and had it replaced a couple days ago.
I did the relearn and watched the parked in idle rpm settle in at about 500-550, which seems a little on the low side for this vehicle.
Problem is when I get my RPMs going up to the point where I want to move up a gear, they stick, and then will return to normal after a 1-2 seconds.
It reminds me of when you are driving an automatic transmission and you can feel the rpm's "settle in" to the new gear ---- I will be at 40mph for example, and
when the rpms's get to about 3k, I can let my foot off gas (with car in gear) and it's like cruise control, sometimes even to the point where it is accelerating the car even more-- then the rpms go back to normal and I can throw it into neutral without a problem.
Edit:
Drove around during lunch and it's getting more aggressive. Just accelerating on it's own every gear - and if I force it into neutral while it's doing this, the RPMS go to 4k+ for about a 2nd before going to normal. ???
2003 Escape XLT Manual Trans. 2.0L 4cyl
My RPM's were staying crazy high ....4k-5k switching gears Throttle body was in terrible shape and clearly sticking.
I had a new one put in along with a new IAC valve. Also found out my throttle cable was bent and frayed. Replaced it.
My clutch failed (180k on car) and had it replaced a couple days ago.
I did the relearn and watched the parked in idle rpm settle in at about 500-550, which seems a little on the low side for this vehicle.
Problem is when I get my RPMs going up to the point where I want to move up a gear, they stick, and then will return to normal after a 1-2 seconds.
It reminds me of when you are driving an automatic transmission and you can feel the rpm's "settle in" to the new gear ---- I will be at 40mph for example, and
when the rpms's get to about 3k, I can let my foot off gas (with car in gear) and it's like cruise control, sometimes even to the point where it is accelerating the car even more-- then the rpms go back to normal and I can throw it into neutral without a problem.
Edit:
Drove around during lunch and it's getting more aggressive. Just accelerating on it's own every gear - and if I force it into neutral while it's doing this, the RPMS go to 4k+ for about a 2nd before going to normal. ???
Last edited by Bruce Landow; Mar 26, 2018 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Update
It might be a good idea to look for a vacuum leak and here is why,
If measured air goes through the Mass Air Flow sensor the PCM (computer) will adjust the amount of fuel supplied to have the engine run properly. If, however, addl air is getting in that the computer is not aware of, the oxygen sensor may think the mixture is lean and supplies addl fuel and so the RPMs also rise until an adjustment is made to correct it. All this is done automatically . If the amount of correction is within limits ,the system will not throw a code, but the constant correcting at low idle is annoying.
That is one of the things I would check.
An IAC motor can also do this, but it is supposed to be new and functioning correctly,, we think !
A scan tool would be a better bet because it would show more info as to just what is happening.
If measured air goes through the Mass Air Flow sensor the PCM (computer) will adjust the amount of fuel supplied to have the engine run properly. If, however, addl air is getting in that the computer is not aware of, the oxygen sensor may think the mixture is lean and supplies addl fuel and so the RPMs also rise until an adjustment is made to correct it. All this is done automatically . If the amount of correction is within limits ,the system will not throw a code, but the constant correcting at low idle is annoying.
That is one of the things I would check.
An IAC motor can also do this, but it is supposed to be new and functioning correctly,, we think !
A scan tool would be a better bet because it would show more info as to just what is happening.
It might be a good idea to look for a vacuum leak and here is why,
If measured air goes through the Mass Air Flow sensor the PCM (computer) will adjust the amount of fuel supplied to have the engine run properly. If, however, addl air is getting in that the computer is not aware of, the oxygen sensor may think the mixture is lean and supplies addl fuel and so the RPMs also rise until an adjustment is made to correct it. All this is done automatically . If the amount of correction is within limits ,the system will not throw a code, but the constant correcting at low idle is annoying.
That is one of the things I would check.
An IAC motor can also do this, but it is supposed to be new and functioning correctly,, we think !
A scan tool would be a better bet because it would show more info as to just what is happening.
If measured air goes through the Mass Air Flow sensor the PCM (computer) will adjust the amount of fuel supplied to have the engine run properly. If, however, addl air is getting in that the computer is not aware of, the oxygen sensor may think the mixture is lean and supplies addl fuel and so the RPMs also rise until an adjustment is made to correct it. All this is done automatically . If the amount of correction is within limits ,the system will not throw a code, but the constant correcting at low idle is annoying.
That is one of the things I would check.
An IAC motor can also do this, but it is supposed to be new and functioning correctly,, we think !
A scan tool would be a better bet because it would show more info as to just what is happening.
higher than normalvacuum leak will make the motor idle higher. Usually around 500 rpm...
Since the throttle cable was sticking and you replaced...does it and TB move freely now?
Yes a scan tool would help. STFT would be high (12-25) and 02's would be staying above 450 usually pegging and staying in the 700-800 if rich if a vacuum or exhaust leak. This would not cause the rpm's to stick and stay high though. Just run rich and fail smog
IAC was reset and new TB...assuming those are good "new". Being able to monitor IAC counts would help but many scan tools don't show IAC
Since the throttle cable was sticking and you replaced...does it and TB move freely now?
Yes a scan tool would help. STFT would be high (12-25) and 02's would be staying above 450 usually pegging and staying in the 700-800 if rich if a vacuum or exhaust leak. This would not cause the rpm's to stick and stay high though. Just run rich and fail smog
IAC was reset and new TB...assuming those are good "new". Being able to monitor IAC counts would help but many scan tools don't show IAC
higher than normalvacuum leak will make the motor idle higher. Usually around 500 rpm...
Since the throttle cable was sticking and you replaced...does it and TB move freely now?
Yes a scan tool would help. STFT would be high (12-25) and 02's would be staying above 450 usually pegging and staying in the 700-800 if rich if a vacuum or exhaust leak. This would not cause the rpm's to stick and stay high though. Just run rich and fail smog
IAC was reset and new TB...assuming those are good "new". Being able to monitor IAC counts would help but many scan tools don't show IAC
Since the throttle cable was sticking and you replaced...does it and TB move freely now?
Yes a scan tool would help. STFT would be high (12-25) and 02's would be staying above 450 usually pegging and staying in the 700-800 if rich if a vacuum or exhaust leak. This would not cause the rpm's to stick and stay high though. Just run rich and fail smog
IAC was reset and new TB...assuming those are good "new". Being able to monitor IAC counts would help but many scan tools don't show IAC
The Throttle body and IAC are both new. But I do think I should check and make sure that valve is moving the way it should.
Update:
I had a mechanic tell me there were no vaccum leaks. He unplugged the MAF sensor and the car died. Told me "You need a new MAF sensor".
First I cleaned the old one - no help. Put in the new one. Same behavior. Reset the Keep Alive Memory one more time. Still bad. What the
hell is going on? Do I need to get my PCM flashed by a dealer? Don't know if I have said this before, but if I am just sitting in neutral at a stop I can rev the engine up as much as I want and the RPMS drop very smooth. Insanse how much time I have been trying to figure this out.
I had a mechanic tell me there were no vaccum leaks. He unplugged the MAF sensor and the car died. Told me "You need a new MAF sensor".
First I cleaned the old one - no help. Put in the new one. Same behavior. Reset the Keep Alive Memory one more time. Still bad. What the
hell is going on? Do I need to get my PCM flashed by a dealer? Don't know if I have said this before, but if I am just sitting in neutral at a stop I can rev the engine up as much as I want and the RPMS drop very smooth. Insanse how much time I have been trying to figure this out.
There could be several reasons for a problem like this and since we haven't come up with the correct answer so far, lets look at some alternatives.
You could always have the vehicle checked out with a scan tool.
What does enter the picture is , why it dosen't happen when you are sitting at a lite in neutral.
If this is what I understand to be the case
Starting with the throttle body, is it possible the cable is not routed correctly and it is really sticking?
What is the condition of the motor mounts , can they be allowing the engine to move in such a way it stresses the cable and causes it to stick?
The electrical system may have a poor connection that is revealed when you depress the throttle the charging system gets a message system voltage is low and the alternator needs to run faster to bring up the charging voltage .
An intake air leak between the MAF sensor and the throttle body, like an opening in the hose itself.
Something is changing after you let out the clutch to move and the RPMs are affected
, you might start looking for a wire that is either contacting a ground or possibly causing an open circuit in info that the computer needs to keep control of RPMs.
There is always the possibility of a "new"part being defective, but if that is the case it should not work correctly when parked as you state.
Only you know what you have checked so far, so what do you think you might be able to do with the above suggestions?
You could always have the vehicle checked out with a scan tool.
What does enter the picture is , why it dosen't happen when you are sitting at a lite in neutral.
If this is what I understand to be the case
Starting with the throttle body, is it possible the cable is not routed correctly and it is really sticking?
What is the condition of the motor mounts , can they be allowing the engine to move in such a way it stresses the cable and causes it to stick?
The electrical system may have a poor connection that is revealed when you depress the throttle the charging system gets a message system voltage is low and the alternator needs to run faster to bring up the charging voltage .
An intake air leak between the MAF sensor and the throttle body, like an opening in the hose itself.
Something is changing after you let out the clutch to move and the RPMs are affected
, you might start looking for a wire that is either contacting a ground or possibly causing an open circuit in info that the computer needs to keep control of RPMs.
There is always the possibility of a "new"part being defective, but if that is the case it should not work correctly when parked as you state.
Only you know what you have checked so far, so what do you think you might be able to do with the above suggestions?
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