2001 F-350 Brake Calipers Seizing
#11
03-10-2016, 04:13 AM
I have found that sometimes the rubber lines deteriorate inside, and cause a restriction inside the line not allowing it to release pressure from the caliper, it is recommended that you replace the rubber lines every 4-5 years. May not be the problem you are having, but you may check to make sure it is not a cheap rubber line causing the problems.
#14
03-10-2016, 07:42 PM
The cause has been identified, but not thanks to the repair shop!
After a diagnosis of "duh!" I went in and I asked to look at the parts that were removed.
I saw that the drum area of the rotor, the area where the park brake shoes make contact, had turned blue from heat. The disc area of the rotor appeared less affected.
I asked to talk to the mechanic, and they were slightly hesitant. A very inexperienced guy appeared. I asked why the drum area of the rotor was blue. He said the parking brake shoes were dragging. So I asked him, isn't this the problem, then?
No, he said, this was a separate issue, not related to the seizing of the calipers. The problem was that the calipers on the main brake assembly had frozen and had released by the time they checked them. The slides and hardware was dry. Didn't the parking brake problem lead to the caliper issue, I asked? Silence. Time is up - he needs to get back to work, they said.
In a nutshell, this information about the parking brake never got communicated to the person who was communicating with me, so she concluded that they couldn't find the cause. Anyway, they didn't really care whether they found the reason or not.
I immediately took the truck to another shop and the older guy there who ran the shop, quite the experienced mechanic it turns out, concluded this:
1) We live in the Pacific Northwest. It rains constantly here in the winter. Brakes never dry out when parked. Parking brake mechanisms on this and other poorly-designed brake mechanisms rust quickly, and seize up in the applied position. With these affected vehicles, if they sit, unused, for a week or more, this is the result.
2) You want to solve your problem, he says, then don't use your parking brake here in the winter. Your problem will go away. He's seen it time and time again here. The last time this happened to you was around the same time of year, right, he asked? Yes, right.
3) The super-hot rotor heated the main brake assembly to the point where the lubrication boiled away, causing them to also seize during the heat. When they cooled, they became operational again, although now impaired.
I asked him to do a complete brake system inspection for me, from top to bottom, to check for problems the other shop missed. This is money well spent.
Take-away: 1) Find a shop with good reviews; 2) Information is lost between communicating parties. Always insist that you deal directly with the mechanic doing the work, and if this is not possible, walk away; 3) make sure you examine the parts removed from your vehicle; 4) Make sure your mechanic has some grey in his beard.
After a diagnosis of "duh!" I went in and I asked to look at the parts that were removed.
I saw that the drum area of the rotor, the area where the park brake shoes make contact, had turned blue from heat. The disc area of the rotor appeared less affected.
I asked to talk to the mechanic, and they were slightly hesitant. A very inexperienced guy appeared. I asked why the drum area of the rotor was blue. He said the parking brake shoes were dragging. So I asked him, isn't this the problem, then?
No, he said, this was a separate issue, not related to the seizing of the calipers. The problem was that the calipers on the main brake assembly had frozen and had released by the time they checked them. The slides and hardware was dry. Didn't the parking brake problem lead to the caliper issue, I asked? Silence. Time is up - he needs to get back to work, they said.
In a nutshell, this information about the parking brake never got communicated to the person who was communicating with me, so she concluded that they couldn't find the cause. Anyway, they didn't really care whether they found the reason or not.
I immediately took the truck to another shop and the older guy there who ran the shop, quite the experienced mechanic it turns out, concluded this:
1) We live in the Pacific Northwest. It rains constantly here in the winter. Brakes never dry out when parked. Parking brake mechanisms on this and other poorly-designed brake mechanisms rust quickly, and seize up in the applied position. With these affected vehicles, if they sit, unused, for a week or more, this is the result.
2) You want to solve your problem, he says, then don't use your parking brake here in the winter. Your problem will go away. He's seen it time and time again here. The last time this happened to you was around the same time of year, right, he asked? Yes, right.
3) The super-hot rotor heated the main brake assembly to the point where the lubrication boiled away, causing them to also seize during the heat. When they cooled, they became operational again, although now impaired.
I asked him to do a complete brake system inspection for me, from top to bottom, to check for problems the other shop missed. This is money well spent.
Take-away: 1) Find a shop with good reviews; 2) Information is lost between communicating parties. Always insist that you deal directly with the mechanic doing the work, and if this is not possible, walk away; 3) make sure you examine the parts removed from your vehicle; 4) Make sure your mechanic has some grey in his beard.
Last edited by MossyRock; 03-19-2016 at 10:40 AM.
#15
03-11-2016, 12:03 PM
Mossy, When this thread started I was wondering about the PB too. I like my truck but the PB set up is a bit goofy.... Glad you found out what was really going on.
Eric
Eric
#16
03-11-2016, 02:12 PM
The park brake system is a 'drum in hat' set up. The park brake uses brake shoes on the rotors interior drum,, cable operated. If the cables were to hang or drag, the park brakes would probably overheat, may lock, or just wear out premature. That said, heat is the enemy,, and if the park brake was to go over temp, would not be good for any off the brake components.
The older SD's were terrible for cooking the caliper piston dust boots and splitting wide open allowing debris into and against the piston and caliper bore. Probably more so of a risk factor in harsh environments like road ice control, and more aggressive off road use. Wasn't a huge lock up issue, but heat, debris, salt or? all could be contributors. Seemed to be more of an issue on the front brakes.
The other thing that sometimes gets overlooked is the caliper pins, pin sealing boots, and the caliper pin/spindle bores. Dry, split pin boots should be replaced,, again, sometimes overlooked, as well as pin lube checked/added to make sure the caliper can shift side to side during normal brake application/operation, and shift position during normal pad wear. The other thing that can create early caliper issues is, sometimes during pad replacement the caliper piston is just 'pushed back' into the caliper bore, moving the old fluid along with any collected debris there back into the brake hoses. Same goes with caliper replacements, the old fluid should never be allowed into a new clean part. They may have bleed the system clean, but can be one of the possible cause and affect issues.
The older SD's were terrible for cooking the caliper piston dust boots and splitting wide open allowing debris into and against the piston and caliper bore. Probably more so of a risk factor in harsh environments like road ice control, and more aggressive off road use. Wasn't a huge lock up issue, but heat, debris, salt or? all could be contributors. Seemed to be more of an issue on the front brakes.
The other thing that sometimes gets overlooked is the caliper pins, pin sealing boots, and the caliper pin/spindle bores. Dry, split pin boots should be replaced,, again, sometimes overlooked, as well as pin lube checked/added to make sure the caliper can shift side to side during normal brake application/operation, and shift position during normal pad wear. The other thing that can create early caliper issues is, sometimes during pad replacement the caliper piston is just 'pushed back' into the caliper bore, moving the old fluid along with any collected debris there back into the brake hoses. Same goes with caliper replacements, the old fluid should never be allowed into a new clean part. They may have bleed the system clean, but can be one of the possible cause and affect issues.
#18
03-19-2016, 10:34 AM
I got my truck back from the 2nd repair shop. One of their areas of expertise are brake systems.
Another disaster was prevented.
They did a complete brake system inspection and repair where necessary, and the cost was extremely low. Here is an excerpt of what was on their report:
"Inspected and found the left front caliper slides were starting to seize up. Removed slides and cleaned and lubed. Found the right rear pads didn't have lube in these slides. Lubed all slides and deglazed and chamfered pads in the front and rear. Also evacuated brake fluid and filled with new brake fluid."
He gave me as much time as I needed talking to me and answering my questions.
He showed me a picture of the front caliper pins and they were badly corroded. He cleaned them up with a wire wheel. He said that the original shop, who replaced both rear brake assemblies and rotors last year, did not apply any lubrication or didn't apply the proper lubrication to the necessary parts. He said that the brake fluid was black, indicating that they didn't change the fluid (even though they said they did), or did it improperly. They also apparently over-adjusted the parking brakes so that they were dragging.
He recommended that with this truck that I have an annual brake inspection done, preferably during the wet season. If I do this I shouldn't have any more problems. He said that using or not using my parking brake was my choice, but he doesn't see any reason why I shouldn't as long as it doesn't stay engaged for a long period of time. This means that he also sees parking brake issues for this type of brake system.
I trust this shop and they will now be getting all of my business.
The take-away here is that SuperDuty truck owners need to pay close and routine attention to their brakes due to their vulnerable design. If you don't know how or want to do this yourself, find a shop that has extensive experience with brakes and has a good reputation.
Another disaster was prevented.
They did a complete brake system inspection and repair where necessary, and the cost was extremely low. Here is an excerpt of what was on their report:
"Inspected and found the left front caliper slides were starting to seize up. Removed slides and cleaned and lubed. Found the right rear pads didn't have lube in these slides. Lubed all slides and deglazed and chamfered pads in the front and rear. Also evacuated brake fluid and filled with new brake fluid."
He gave me as much time as I needed talking to me and answering my questions.
He showed me a picture of the front caliper pins and they were badly corroded. He cleaned them up with a wire wheel. He said that the original shop, who replaced both rear brake assemblies and rotors last year, did not apply any lubrication or didn't apply the proper lubrication to the necessary parts. He said that the brake fluid was black, indicating that they didn't change the fluid (even though they said they did), or did it improperly. They also apparently over-adjusted the parking brakes so that they were dragging.
He recommended that with this truck that I have an annual brake inspection done, preferably during the wet season. If I do this I shouldn't have any more problems. He said that using or not using my parking brake was my choice, but he doesn't see any reason why I shouldn't as long as it doesn't stay engaged for a long period of time. This means that he also sees parking brake issues for this type of brake system.
I trust this shop and they will now be getting all of my business.
The take-away here is that SuperDuty truck owners need to pay close and routine attention to their brakes due to their vulnerable design. If you don't know how or want to do this yourself, find a shop that has extensive experience with brakes and has a good reputation.
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Robert Morrissey
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