Cluster, Wipers, warning lights intermittent inop
#1
01-22-2019, 01:52 PM
Cluster, Wipers, warning lights intermittent inop
Two plus year issue. Much frustration and much money spent. Think my ignorance is being taken advantage of....PLEASE HELP!!
Bought truck Feb 2016. Very clean with 196+K miles. Aug/ Sep it started. I'll try and just stick with the facts and timeline to see what you guys think. I've had it am at wit's end and out of money to throw at it. I work helo's I don't know diesels nor automotive electronics.
1. Fall 2016 driving to work in rain. Wipers stopped. on side of road also saw the cluster was dead all gages dropped, odometer blank, no stereo, no heat or pwr windows ABS and couple other warning lights came on. engine and trans still functioned. Called a Ford specific shop closest to home. As I was talking with them, everything sprang back to life. Dropped at the shop. Kept it a week saying they couldn't duplicate. Finally they said the cluster was bad. Had replaced. Issue went away for a period of time
2. Several months problem free then same symptoms returned. tolerated it a while before having checked.
SIDENOTE Once in a while, randomly, between earlier episodes I'd notice the ABS light randomly come on some start-up sequences and stay on a while but eventually go back off....figured dirty sensor or something. Braked never have had issues. Do need replacing now with 345K mi.....
Back to #2. Had it checked.......bad body computer. Had it replaced. Issues went away for some time then came back, identical every time as the first symptons. This time I was told it was a loose wire behind the stereo. I called BS this time. Told them I was sick and tired of paying them to learn how to troubleshoot and refused to pay the $275 "wire repair" (Beginning to wonder just how much they looked for or got it to duplicate symptoms....) and they zeroed the bill.
3. Feb Record low temps in N.C. Even with heater plugged in, both batteries die. Retailer warrantied both. Replaced all but one of the stock flimsy factory batt end terminals with heavy duty gold plated ones that had holes and set screws to secure wires. Stripped back and saw noting but bare clean copper on the main batt cables. Installed, heat shrinked ends and she fired right up and has ever since.
4. May this year. same prob returns. Some time passes and back it comes again. Back to shop very irate having spent time and money to no avail and screaming refund and warranty. After a day or so they say the alternator is bad although NO other electrical issues. Replaced Alt. been operating as normal until....... Cranks right up every time. I When I picked it up and paid that bill I saked what would they draw from the hat to blame it on when it happens next time as they've replaced every expensive part in the system......
5. 2 weeks ago. Driving home from work ABS light caught my eye.) Know and already have rotors and pads for changeout first warm day). As I scan, all the symptoms are back. Called shop livid!
Dropped off next morning (Last Wed). Had to chase them down for updates but never got a call from them. "We're still looking into it We'll let you know...." gave them "what for" each time I called about incompetence, etc, failing to diagnose for 2 years and just throwing parts at it. Monday they call and say the found it ( again?!?!?!?). it's the battery cables, they're corroded. they need replaced to the tune of $6-700 parts/ labor.
Unless they stripped off the insulation how would they know?
If the ends are corroded wouldn't cleaning the bare terminal; ends to a point rectify that???
Best I know, that should have caused all sorts of CRANKING problems since those heavy cables are mainly for the starting sequence and in addition to A/C loads the Alt would replenish battery drains from the DC systems in the truck. I've never had any sort of starting/ hard to start or needs a jump since I replaced the batteries and term ends. A mechanic told me that a bundle of wires that runs across top of the left fender well contains come ABS wired and sometimes that bundle can chafe and that the abs wires can cause the cluster and other symptoms I have been experiencing.
I told them not to do anything to the truck, that I'd be by to pick it up along with detailed reports of what they troubleshot each time but most especially this last one. I plan on checking the wiring bundled under the filter box as well as plugging and unplugging every plug to rub-clean as well as clean every terminal end and such. I have no clue how to win this battle I'm pondering with the shop. Has anyone ever won in small claims? Are there advocacy groups or any avenues I might try for restitution thtough and has anyone had anything similar and figures out what the root problem was? Thanks
Dave
Bought truck Feb 2016. Very clean with 196+K miles. Aug/ Sep it started. I'll try and just stick with the facts and timeline to see what you guys think. I've had it am at wit's end and out of money to throw at it. I work helo's I don't know diesels nor automotive electronics.
1. Fall 2016 driving to work in rain. Wipers stopped. on side of road also saw the cluster was dead all gages dropped, odometer blank, no stereo, no heat or pwr windows ABS and couple other warning lights came on. engine and trans still functioned. Called a Ford specific shop closest to home. As I was talking with them, everything sprang back to life. Dropped at the shop. Kept it a week saying they couldn't duplicate. Finally they said the cluster was bad. Had replaced. Issue went away for a period of time
2. Several months problem free then same symptoms returned. tolerated it a while before having checked.
SIDENOTE Once in a while, randomly, between earlier episodes I'd notice the ABS light randomly come on some start-up sequences and stay on a while but eventually go back off....figured dirty sensor or something. Braked never have had issues. Do need replacing now with 345K mi.....
Back to #2. Had it checked.......bad body computer. Had it replaced. Issues went away for some time then came back, identical every time as the first symptons. This time I was told it was a loose wire behind the stereo. I called BS this time. Told them I was sick and tired of paying them to learn how to troubleshoot and refused to pay the $275 "wire repair" (Beginning to wonder just how much they looked for or got it to duplicate symptoms....) and they zeroed the bill.
3. Feb Record low temps in N.C. Even with heater plugged in, both batteries die. Retailer warrantied both. Replaced all but one of the stock flimsy factory batt end terminals with heavy duty gold plated ones that had holes and set screws to secure wires. Stripped back and saw noting but bare clean copper on the main batt cables. Installed, heat shrinked ends and she fired right up and has ever since.
4. May this year. same prob returns. Some time passes and back it comes again. Back to shop very irate having spent time and money to no avail and screaming refund and warranty. After a day or so they say the alternator is bad although NO other electrical issues. Replaced Alt. been operating as normal until....... Cranks right up every time. I When I picked it up and paid that bill I saked what would they draw from the hat to blame it on when it happens next time as they've replaced every expensive part in the system......
5. 2 weeks ago. Driving home from work ABS light caught my eye.) Know and already have rotors and pads for changeout first warm day). As I scan, all the symptoms are back. Called shop livid!
Dropped off next morning (Last Wed). Had to chase them down for updates but never got a call from them. "We're still looking into it We'll let you know...." gave them "what for" each time I called about incompetence, etc, failing to diagnose for 2 years and just throwing parts at it. Monday they call and say the found it ( again?!?!?!?). it's the battery cables, they're corroded. they need replaced to the tune of $6-700 parts/ labor.
Unless they stripped off the insulation how would they know?
If the ends are corroded wouldn't cleaning the bare terminal; ends to a point rectify that???
Best I know, that should have caused all sorts of CRANKING problems since those heavy cables are mainly for the starting sequence and in addition to A/C loads the Alt would replenish battery drains from the DC systems in the truck. I've never had any sort of starting/ hard to start or needs a jump since I replaced the batteries and term ends. A mechanic told me that a bundle of wires that runs across top of the left fender well contains come ABS wired and sometimes that bundle can chafe and that the abs wires can cause the cluster and other symptoms I have been experiencing.
I told them not to do anything to the truck, that I'd be by to pick it up along with detailed reports of what they troubleshot each time but most especially this last one. I plan on checking the wiring bundled under the filter box as well as plugging and unplugging every plug to rub-clean as well as clean every terminal end and such. I have no clue how to win this battle I'm pondering with the shop. Has anyone ever won in small claims? Are there advocacy groups or any avenues I might try for restitution thtough and has anyone had anything similar and figures out what the root problem was? Thanks
Dave
#4
01-23-2019, 07:57 AM
UH-1 H, D or M model?
IIRC ground connections corrode first. Possibly a shared ground wire that is giving you intermittent problems.
Regards,
Eric
IIRC ground connections corrode first. Possibly a shared ground wire that is giving you intermittent problems.
Regards,
Eric
#5
01-23-2019, 09:53 AM
Good ol H ( ours are Army surplus H's that were converted D's) models! And one Huey Plus. Never thought mt career would literally come full circle and I'b be back vibrating around the sky in helo's again.
Stumped on the terms still...... IIRC? Ona side note when I went to get it yesterday I started pressing the guy about the latest diag...main batt cables and how little sence that made to me, he started saying how he'd talk to the service mgr about waiving this last diag fee.......yes I intentionally left out ( on here) and to him it was a dealership and to him that I called other dealerships around the country for their take. I'm planing on, when it warms outside and I rebuild the turbo on checking/ cleaning every connection and term end under the hood just to bring all up to an even baseline.
#6
01-23-2019, 01:00 PM
Hi Dave,
Since no one has touched on the area I am going to ask, suppose we check this out.
F series Fords in that area year group came right from the factory with leaking windshields. When that moisture managed to get into the GEM (Generic Electronic Module), all sorts of unexplained things happened. Some of the problems you described are in that list.
If you can, look for rust or moisture intrusion just above the parking brake assy. If you see traces of that and you want to, remove the GEM module and look inside for corrosion or moisture. If you see any, sometimes cleaning the area with electronic parts cleaner helps or replacement may be necessary. If the windshield has been replaced in the past and not sealed correctly , the same problem could be there. Your vehicle is not the first I have come across with this problem and if not aware it can drive a tech nuts ! This could be the cause and we won't know until you do the checks, please don't ask anyone else to check this because if you do it and it is the problem the only cost is your time and you will know when you found the problem. Can you get back to us and let us know what you find, thanks.
Since no one has touched on the area I am going to ask, suppose we check this out.
F series Fords in that area year group came right from the factory with leaking windshields. When that moisture managed to get into the GEM (Generic Electronic Module), all sorts of unexplained things happened. Some of the problems you described are in that list.
If you can, look for rust or moisture intrusion just above the parking brake assy. If you see traces of that and you want to, remove the GEM module and look inside for corrosion or moisture. If you see any, sometimes cleaning the area with electronic parts cleaner helps or replacement may be necessary. If the windshield has been replaced in the past and not sealed correctly , the same problem could be there. Your vehicle is not the first I have come across with this problem and if not aware it can drive a tech nuts ! This could be the cause and we won't know until you do the checks, please don't ask anyone else to check this because if you do it and it is the problem the only cost is your time and you will know when you found the problem. Can you get back to us and let us know what you find, thanks.
#8
01-23-2019, 10:59 PM
Hi Dave,
Since no one has touched on the area I am going to ask, suppose we check this out.
F series Fords in that area year group came right from the factory with leaking windshields. When that moisture managed to get into the GEM (Generic Electronic Module), all sorts of unexplained things happened. Some of the problems you described are in that list.
If you can, look for rust or moisture intrusion just above the parking brake assy. If you see traces of that and you want to, remove the GEM module and look inside for corrosion or moisture. If you see any, sometimes cleaning the area with electronic parts cleaner helps or replacement may be necessary. If the windshield has been replaced in the past and not sealed correctly , the same problem could be there. Your vehicle is not the first I have come across with this problem and if not aware it can drive a tech nuts ! This could be the cause and we won't know until you do the checks, please don't ask anyone else to check this because if you do it and it is the problem the only cost is your time and you will know when you found the problem. Can you get back to us and let us know what you find, thanks.
Since no one has touched on the area I am going to ask, suppose we check this out.
F series Fords in that area year group came right from the factory with leaking windshields. When that moisture managed to get into the GEM (Generic Electronic Module), all sorts of unexplained things happened. Some of the problems you described are in that list.
If you can, look for rust or moisture intrusion just above the parking brake assy. If you see traces of that and you want to, remove the GEM module and look inside for corrosion or moisture. If you see any, sometimes cleaning the area with electronic parts cleaner helps or replacement may be necessary. If the windshield has been replaced in the past and not sealed correctly , the same problem could be there. Your vehicle is not the first I have come across with this problem and if not aware it can drive a tech nuts ! This could be the cause and we won't know until you do the checks, please don't ask anyone else to check this because if you do it and it is the problem the only cost is your time and you will know when you found the problem. Can you get back to us and let us know what you find, thanks.
Last edited by Hueycrew; 01-23-2019 at 11:11 PM. Reason: Add comments at end and spelling g c
#9
01-24-2019, 01:02 AM
2001 was the last year for GEM, VSM replace the Generic Mod.
With the cluster replacement, they probably thought the internal Battery Saver Relay was the cause.
Like the Accessory Delay Relay, they both could/would affect PW, PL, Radio etc. but generally not cluster gauges, wipers etc.
Could possibly be a drop out in power distribution from the CJB into the cluster.
Although, ABS/VSS sends a signal to the wiper motor processor.
When the truck suffers from an event, how long do the features remain off?
With the cluster replacement, they probably thought the internal Battery Saver Relay was the cause.
Like the Accessory Delay Relay, they both could/would affect PW, PL, Radio etc. but generally not cluster gauges, wipers etc.
Could possibly be a drop out in power distribution from the CJB into the cluster.
Although, ABS/VSS sends a signal to the wiper motor processor.
When the truck suffers from an event, how long do the features remain off?
#10
01-24-2019, 06:41 AM
Maybe there is a leak anyway.
I found one on a vehicle once by closing off all the windows and putting the air handling system into recirculating (keeping fresh air out) Put a shop vac into a cardboard "patch" in a partially opened window and used a smoldering twig to see where the smoke got sucked in. Used the proper sealant and all was good.
Eric
I found one on a vehicle once by closing off all the windows and putting the air handling system into recirculating (keeping fresh air out) Put a shop vac into a cardboard "patch" in a partially opened window and used a smoldering twig to see where the smoke got sucked in. Used the proper sealant and all was good.
Eric