I have a 1988 Ford E-250 (fuel-injected, V8 302 5.0L) with a no crank, no start situation. Vehicle has 107,000 confirmed original miles. I could use your help to figure out what's going on.


First symptom was the radio turning off (and immediately back on) while driving. It's an after-market radio that I installed four years ago. I checked the radio connections and found one un-capped wire. I re-capped the wire and went on a test drive but the radio still turned off while driving.


Next, the van would not start (no crank, multi-click). I checked the battery voltage and it was good. I checked the fuses and the stereo fuse had blown! I'm not sure why this caused a no-start, but I replaced the fuse and the van started and drove well for one week. The fuse that blew is a 15A for "dome lamp, map lamp, memory, power door lock relays 4.9L cooling fan relay, radio" per the original manual. This vehicle does not have power doors or windows.


After one week of driving well (radio still glitching), the van would not start again (no crank). Battery voltage tested good. The same fuse was blown, but replacing it did not allow the vehicle to start this time.


I replaced the ignition switch, hoping it was a good guess but it didn't change anything.


I bought an inexpensive battery tester from autozone, the kind that can test the battery, alternator, and starter. It said the battery SAE was low, and needed replacing. I replaced the battery, but the van still did not start. I tested again, and the battery tester said the same thing. I wonder if this is a clue to what is going on, or if it's just a ****ty tester. It won't move onto the next items (starter or alternator) because it failed the battery step.


I have thoughts on both the starter and the alternator:

Starter: I replaced the starter motor and solenoid two years ago. Both of these parts were originals before I replaced them, so maybe they went bad quickly as aftermarket parts? I didn't want to jump right into replacing them again since it seems like I replaced them pretty recently. Also, when they failed, it was a very different symptom. More of a slow failure, not a clean cut like this. And the blown fuse is throwing me off of this being the answer.

Alternator: I have never replaced the alternator, so this is the original. I would think that a failing alternator would create less power in the system, but have heard that it is possible for it to send more power and could potentially cause a short. I wonder what your thoughts are on this.


Ignition Control Module thoughts:

I know that the ICM is a menace with this vehicle specifically. It is mounted on the distributor, so it overheats. I have replaced it multiple times, but the symptom does not usually show up in this way. I haven't replaced it for four years, so this could be it, but I don't think this is the obvious issue due to the blown fuse, and the difference in symptoms. Usually it slowly gives out and causes stalls before it causes a full-on no start. Then, the no-start with the ICM is a crank no start, and in this situation it isn't cranking.


So, right now we have a new battery that is failing a battery tester (message says "bad replace 70 SAE"), and a multi-click no crank no start. The battery tester is OEM Digital Battery Analyzer 24359. The manual says this is the available CCA and that "bad replace" means the battery will not hold a charge. This battery is testing correct voltage and is brand new.


Alright, what do you all think?

 

Please bear with me because this does go back a bit.

If I recall the battery is located on the passenger side against the firewall.

There is a little bit more to automobile electric than voltage. A defective battery can measure 12 volts and still not lite a small bulb. The current going through the resistance of the bulb is what causes it to glow.
Back to what could be happening here. Assuming the battery is capable of sending current through a wire we should be able to measure volts at all points where that wire goes.The voltage is what pushes that current through the wire.

The positive post of the battery has a thick cable that is supposed to be able to carry the high current the starter needs to operate.
A solenoid makes the heavy draw connection between the battery to the starter. That solenoid is activated when the key is turned to the start position , AND either in neutral or park position.
So now you know where the power comes from and how it gets to where we need it to operate the starter motor.
If the parking brake is applied, and the shifter is in park and the key is turned to the start position , we should be able to measure 12 volts at that small terminal of the start relay, and you should be able to hear that relay click . If you took a wire and ran it from the battery positive post to that small terminal of the relay , just touch it, it should operate and send battery power to the starter motor and if the key is on , the engine should start. DOES IT ?

 

Hanky, thanks for the quick reply.

This vehicle has a starter relay (little gray box) and a starter solenoid. What you're referring to sounds like like jumping the starter solenoid, is that what you're saying?

I can enlist someone to help this week so I can detect which parts are clicking and try jumping the solenoid.

I was thinking I could also try replacing the starter relay to see if that changes anything since it's not an expensive part. I'm not sure how to bench test it, if anybody here knows how?

Thanks!

 

You said no crank no start, is it on cold start, warm start or all the time now?
Assuming your battery resting voltage is 12.6V or higher, when it's no crank no start there is nothing to do with the alternator and ICM.

You said the starter relay is cheap then why didn't you clean it or replace it?

You replaced the starter 2 years ago, so can you identify all the terminals?
You do not need to remove the starter to bench test it at this moment, you can do quite a few tests already while it's still on your van.
1) Basically you need to locate the S terminal, clamp the red alligator of your voltmeter to it, don't test under the van if at all possible, the black alligator to your battery ground terminal. If your DMM doesn't have alligator just extend it or do whatever, you just need a solid connection. Now set your voltmeter to 20V and you need to measure the present of voltage at S terminal, so find a helper to crank while you keep your eyes on the voltmeter display, can you see any voltage even if it doesn't reach 12V?
If you don't see any voltage, then there is a problem in between your ignition lock cylinder and the S terminal.

2) Locate the same S terminal, clamp the red alligator of your jumper cable to it, do not connect the other end yet, and don't do the test under your van, turn the key to RUN position, not START position, just RUN or it's labeled as ON position, now you connect the other end of the red alligator to the battery positive post, don't clamp to the post (or you over-crank it), just tap and hold to the post for a couple seconds until you hear the cranking noise.
If it doesn't crank at all still, either your starter solenoid is dead, or your battery is too weak, or a bad ground strap, or a bad connection from your battery to the B terminal of your starter.

Test no.1 above, you are bypassing ignition switch, neutral safety switch and starter relay, 0 volt means something is bad either the component or a bad connection.
Test no. 2 above, same bypassing the 3 above, as if you are bench testing the starter on the bench, the difference is, starter motor gets ground from its housing, and its housing is connected to the block. A bad ground strap or bad ground connection is less likely, you would get slow crank instead of no crank.

If you don't have time to troubleshoot all these, and you just want to throw new part at it, go buy the starter relay and replace it.

 

Do you have either a test light or multimeter to use ?

A test light is my choice because you can see the result immediately and if you clip the wire with the alligator clip to the terminal with power you can place the light where you can see it from inside the vehicle as long as the pointed probe is sticking to or connected to any ground ,sheet metal etc.
.No need to remove to do any testing. You would clip the alligator clip to the small terminal of the solenoid/relay and stick the pointed end of the test light to any convenient metal part of the sheet metal of the vehicle.When power is getting to the small terminal of the solenoid the test lamp should light !
If the test lamp lights and you don't hear any click, the solenoid is either defective or has a poor ground connection which is usually through it's mounting to the vehicle sheet metal.

If the test lamp does not light, make sure the connections are good OR there is a different problem and it is not the solenoid.

 

Thank you Heiko and Hanky!

It seems like you both believe it's worth looking into the components of the starting system first. But am wonderinng if you think the blown fuse is a bit odd if it's an issue with the starting system? I have never seen this blown fuse symptom in relation to the starter and related parts failing, and am curious if you guys think this may be signaling it's something else?

Thanks for the testing details, I will run those tests as soon as I can. I prefer testing to throwing parts so that I can learn more and understand the systems better.

Heiko, the vehicle won't start, no matter the condition. No crank no start all the time.

Hanky, I do have a multimeter, don't have a test light.

The starter relay I'm referring to is a plastic piece, that is different from the starter solenoid. I see on the diagram you (Heiko) attached it doesn't show two parts, but there are two. I was curious if it's possible to test the relay (picture below), rather than the solenoid. But can test the solenoid while I'm at it.

Thanks again, I appreciate all your help!

 

There is a time when too many cooks can spoil the pie,,,so I will sit back and not interfere with heiko's directions.
If it gets the problem found and corrected great !
If not, will be available.

 

Starter relay you should have the fender mounted type like this:



The one attached to the starter motor that's the solenoid.
Check your starter motor, how many wire/cable are connected to it? A typical one should have B, M and S, S is the trigger from the starter relay, M is from the solenoid to the motor, B is the feed from battery. From the diagram I posted previously it is showing a single black wire from the relay, how many on yours? If you have just a single wire to the starter then you do all the tests at the fender mounted relay.

 

Didn't get a reply from you so let's assume just a single wire going to the starter, locate the fender mounted starter relay by the battery attached to your fender.


Not sure the orientation of the mounting, say your S is at the bottom, you need to do 4 tests:
A) Check the B terminal of your starter relay and see if it's getting battery voltage.
1) Use voltmeter and check your current battery voltage and observe the reading
2) Check B terminal of starter relay (voltmeter red to B black to battery ground post)
If you get battery voltage (preferably exact voltage) continue to Test B below, if not, you need to replace this cable, before doing so, check the fusible link G as shown on the upper left corner of the electrical diagram I submitted previously.




B) Check the signal from your key -> ignition lock cylinder -> ignition switch -> neutral safety switch -> S terminal of your starter relay, this is the positive trigger wire
1) Set voltmeter to 20A red to S terminal black to battery ground post
2) Find a helper to crank while watching the voltmeter display, you should get a voltage, if you don't then you need further test at the neutral safety switch

C) If you get voltage from Test B above, let's check the starter relay itself and see if it's energizing at all
1) Turn the key to ON or RUN position
2) Use jumper wire preferably with alligator clamp and clamp it to the S terminal, the other end tap/touch on the battery's red post, does it crank? If it doesn't, your starter relay is probably DEAD (continue to test D to confirm). If it does then the voltage you get from Test B, the positive trigger wire is probably too weak, because this test bypasses your ignition switch and neutral safety switch and you need further test

D) Test the cable from M terminal from your starter relay to the cable on your starter motor
ohmmeter set to 200Ω dial, black to starter motor terminal the one with the cable attached, red to starter relay M terminal, you expect 5 ohm or less. If that's true, then just go buy a new relay if it doesn't crank on Test C above. Also don't forget to use wire brush and clean your fender where the starter relay mounting is, the relay gets its ground from there, so bad ground can also cause the relay to not energize as well, new or old relay doesn't matter.