Everything is wired correctly except my husband had to run a 12 gauge wire directly from the starter solenoid to the solenoid relay on the firewall, because the "do not remove this lead" wire was not connected (it was crimped but they had missed crimping the wire in, therefore it came off...this is on a new starter). The truck will start if he crosses over at the relay but not from the switch, so he was wandering if the relay plays any other role in the starting circuit other than just communicating with the solenoid to engage the starter so the truck will start. He's also thinking maybe the new relay might be bad.(???) Thank you for your help.

 

The relay's only purpose is to protect the ign sw from the heavier electrical load the solenoid on the starter requires.
So we are on the same page.

The positive cable from the battery connects to one of the large posts on the relay and from there should go to the top post of the starter solenoid.
The relay should have 1 small terminal. The wire from the start position of the ign sw. goes to that small terminal.
When you say he crosses it , is he activating the relay by supplying power to the small terminal of the rely or is he jumping the 2 large terminals of the relay.

 

Thank you for answering that...and the solenoid relay is connected correctly. The solenoid actually has 2 small terminals, but he's only using the "s" terminal I do believe. He's jumping the 2 large terminals of the relay with a screwdriver. Okay in talking to my husband...he said I needed to ask, where does the wire from the small terminal on the starter solenoid go to.

 

This is where it gets confusing.
Some relays show 1 small terminal , and some show 2 small terminals.
As you requested we are interested in where the wire from the S terminal goes.


It is supposed to go from the S terminal to the neutral safety sw and from there on to the start terminal of the ignition switch.


That ign sw is mounted on the lower part of the steering column inside the vehicle under the dash.


Power is supposed to come from the ign sw start position and go down to the (MLPS manual lever position sw), neutral safety sw.on the trans.


From there it goes to the S terminal of the relay.


Without a wire color diagram to work from. I would suggest trace the color wire from the S terminal and see if it goes to the neutral safety sw, then with a meter or test lite see if that wire in the harness plug , still plugged in, has any power when the ign sw is turned to the start position.


If it gets power the problem is between the plug and the relay S terminal.


If it gets no power, the problem is between the ign sw and the neutral safety sw , that sw included.


At this point I need to ask if your vehicle has any kind of anti-theft system on it.

 

Howdy Hanky...first let me apologize, I unintentionally told you wrong, he was jumping it from the hot terminal to the "s" terminal. He test lit anything in that area with and without the key in the on position.
1) The truck starts only in P and N like it is suppose to, thus he is thinking it is not the neutral safety switch. He tested that by trying to start it in all the gears, just to make sure.
Now here's something a little interesting:
Once he figured out where the wire for the starter solenoid to the relay went (he knows it ain't the "s" terminal), the truck started with the KEY and did NOT blow the fuse , Now we have the truck able to start like it is supposed to without blowing a fuse (a major accomplishment and he can remove the bypass button). But after resolving that problem one issue remains...he finds that once in a while the truck starts fine and will run 15 or 20 minutes, maybe longer and then out of the blue the starter tries to engage. We are thinking there could be a short in the "s" terminal wire (beige with red/brown stripe and you have explained that goes to the NSS on the trans assbly.) since it will light the test light when it isn't suppose to (current is going to it once in a while when the truck is running) or maybe the solenoid relay is bad (though its new, but things are made so crappy nowadays). What are your thoughts on this?

 

Here is a suggestion,
once you get the engine started unlpug the wire from the S terminal and see what happens.

If after a while, it still attempts to start, there is a problem with the relay.


If there was no further problem with the S terminal wire unplugged, the problem is between the wire that was unplugged and the ign sw.


There are times we have to bite the bullet and cut a wire to remove it from a circuit.
Just pick a spot where it can be easily reconnected with a shrink type butt connector and that protects the connection from any opportunity with corrosion. I have even temporarily wired in a toggle switch where I was able to open the circuit when I wanted to in order to still have the ability to start the engine and also isolate certain parts from the circuit. It is merely a process of elimination and the one sure way of determining the problem area. And it works every time !

 

Good morning Hanky...thank you for the input...he will try that, but not today, he's helping a friend out and may be doing so for a couple of days. So if it isn't the relay, it could be in the "s" terminal wire, is that what you are saying? I want to make sure I'm telling him right. (I'm bettin' on a short in the wire somewhere). He said he will also check the wiring on the trans assbly. He is as happy as he can be that the truck is starting with the key again!!!! He said he is very grateful to have you helping him out, as I am...thank you so very much. I will get back with you when we do those things you have suggested. God bless you.

 

If he is going to use the truck to do what he is planning to do, after the engine starts, remove the small wire from the S terminal. Now,,,,,,,,, he can use the truck and if it makes no attempt to engage the starter, great at least it won't ruin anything.
Now, when he shuts it off and wants to restart it , just put the small wire back on the relay , start the engine remove the wire until he can delve into it further.
It may be inconvenient to keep opening the hood to put the wire back on, but he is preventing damage to another starter and also the flywheel.
If this works without any further problems even temporarily ,the vehicle is usable and should prevent further damage . I'll give him about 3 days or less and he is going to go after this with a vengeance ! He can do it

 

Howdy, well I'm back (no I didn't forget about you, how have you been?) The man has been sick and feelin' yucky so we have not been working on the truck. First of all Hanky, let me answer your question as to anti-theft system...No, the truck is very basic...there's no anti-theft system, no remote, no pwr locks or windows (which probably is a good thing for our situation @ the moment). Thursday he did test lite the "s" wire (beige and red/brown) on the transmission and it lit up...so somewhere between the rubber boot on the "s" wire and to the NSS there is a short (am I right on that?). Let me ask...is the MLPS (OTR), NSS, PNP switch one in the same and different wires for various functions plug into it? He wants to know what all of the plugs are for in that area on the transmission. He's thinkin' of "bitin' the bullet" but don't want to cut the wrong wire or cause more problems than he already has. I ran him off a diagram of what I found but he says there are more plugs in that area than mentioned or shown in the diagram and now "the Google Queen" (his nickname for me) is at a standstill and can't find what he's looking for or asking about, so can you please help me out here? If you can provide me a link to what he's looking for (and wiring diagram too)...I sure would appreciate it. Have a great day and God bless.

 

Let's hope our tech is feeling better soon.


I am trying to locate a good wiring diagram to forward to you .


What color is the wire that gets plugged to the S terminal ?
Colors are usually described as ex. beige with red stripe (beige with red tracer)

They are usually described using only 2 colors. BG/rd
Now what ever color the wire is at the S terminal ,there should be a wre of matching color at the NSS. The only time that color wire should have power to it is when the ign sw is turned to the start position. If it is as you describe , has power, with the key not in the start position ,you are correct, there is either a ( short to power) or power is getting to it by a possibly defective switch sending power to it when it should be open.
Now, does that same wire have power to it if it is unplugged from the NSS?
The NSS is the only switch we are concerned with at this time and it can be identified by watching what moves when you shift out of park into any gear position. It is located on the driver's side of the trans.