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'87 4.9L Wont start - Whats this noise?

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  #11  
Old 04-20-2018, 07:10 PM
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I keep hovering around this "ground" thing... Is there a way I can test to ensure my fender is properly grounded?
I mean I think the starter Relay is getting it's ground through the screws its mounted on (the screw holes are clear metal)
But the fender is newly painted. so I am not sure the fender is carrying current to the main cab frame.

Also, to test the starter, can I simply turn the key to "ON" then put a screw driver across the relay bolts to give the starter power?
Or will that fry something?
I dont know if my wire from the relay to the starter is corroded and thats the problem?
It sucks that there is just "nothing".
 
  #12  
Old 04-21-2018, 04:51 AM
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OK, I realize you did a nice paint job and don't want to remove any if not necessary. Just because the relay is mounted with nice clean bolts does not guarantee there is a good ground connection under the relay mounting itself. The simplest solution is to run a temporary wire from the relay mounting bolt directly to the battery negative post. Now you know it has a good ground.
Don't go by the pix from the net re., the 4th wire.
Make sure the trans is in neutral, and as a test without the key on you can temporarily connect a screwdriver from the relay terminal coming from the battery to the small terminal in the relay. The relay should close and complete the power supply to the starter. If this works, it proves out the connections and the starter.
There is a clutch safety switch that must be closed (clutch fully depressed) for the power from the ign switch start position to get to the starter relay to energize it.
The simple way to confirm is to connect a test lite or voltmeter to the small terminal of the relay and ground. when you turn the key to the start position the light should light . If it does and the relay does not operate , either it has no ground or is defective.
Can I ask why you are attempting to start the engine when there is no cooling protection etc.? If you are concerned about frying anything that is one way to fry the engine.
 
  #13  
Old 04-21-2018, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by hanky
OK, I realize you did a nice paint job and don't want to remove any if not necessary. Just because the relay is mounted with nice clean bolts does not guarantee there is a good ground connection under the relay mounting itself. The simplest solution is to run a temporary wire from the relay mounting bolt directly to the battery negative post. Now you know it has a good ground.
Don't go by the pix from the net re., the 4th wire.
Make sure the trans is in neutral, and as a test without the key on you can temporarily connect a screwdriver from the relay terminal coming from the battery to the small terminal in the relay. The relay should close and complete the power supply to the starter. If this works, it proves out the connections and the starter.
There is a clutch safety switch that must be closed (clutch fully depressed) for the power from the ign switch start position to get to the starter relay to energize it.
The simple way to confirm is to connect a test lite or voltmeter to the small terminal of the relay and ground. when you turn the key to the start position the light should light . If it does and the relay does not operate , either it has no ground or is defective.
Can I ask why you are attempting to start the engine when there is no cooling protection etc.? If you are concerned about frying anything that is one way to fry the engine.
Thanks Hanky!
I don't mind removing paint if needed.
So you are saying I should remove the paint behind the Starter Relay plate (so that the whole surface is on clean metal).

If you are telling me that, I gather that the fender should have direct metal contact with the Cab? Because right now there is paint on every inch of the fender. So even where the fender is mounted, there is paint.

And Third question for this lovely Saturday morning;
I think my wiring is wrong... I put it back the way it was when I bought it, but it could have been put in wrong.
1. My negative wire is not grounded to the engine head like in this diagram
2. I am running a negative lead to the "B" connection of the starter. But in the Left side of the diagram, It should have another Positive lead? So S and B have positive leads but S only gets power when I turn the Ignition key?
Can you take a look a this and let me know if I should rewire the starter and negative to engine block?
https://i.imgur.com/5m09fDR.png

Thanks again! I think we are getting close!
 

Last edited by ddoiron; 04-21-2018 at 06:49 AM.
  #14  
Old 04-21-2018, 07:42 AM
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The diagram you show is close, but your starter does not have a solenoid on it.
To recap;
neg post gets cable directly to starter mounting or engine block.

Pos post goes to 1 large terminal of relay
Other large terminal of relay goes to terminal on starter.
Relay has 1 small terminal that comes from start pos of ign sw.(goes thru clutch safety sw)
When key goes to start pos it energizes relay that closes and sends power to starter motor.

To confirm a possible ground problem, just run a wire from neg terminal of battery to case/mounting of relay. If that solves the problem , more permanent connections can be made or cleaned if necessary. It's nice when everything is connected and ground is assumed going thru mountings, but paint does manage to prevent good connections.
To prevent rusting at component assemblies like fenders, all you need to do is run a short piece of wire connecting the fender well to the chassis or engine block.
Wires hanging all over the place is poor workmanship. They can be placed neatly and look professional when done with a little care which is what you want to do.
I still hope you will not start and run that engine more than a few seconds to confirm it will start and run. What do you think?
 
  #15  
Old 04-21-2018, 08:01 AM
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How can you be sure that my starter does not have a solenoid? I have 2 wires going directly to the starter.
I am not saying that is does, just wondering.

AS for the Coolant, I flushed out all the coolant and replaced the Thermostat.
When I put the engine back together, I went to put coolant into the radiator but found that I can not remove the cap.
It seem to only twist to release pressure.

So the only way I see to put coolant back into the system was through the reservoir.
I have filled the reservoir once but its not going into the engine on its own.
I figured that once the engine was on, a pump would suction the coolant out of the reservoir and I would just keep refilling it until it stops emptying?
If you have some other way I would REALLY love to know. it was worrying me to run the engine without coolant already in there...

Ill make some tests for the ground wire.
It could also be the clutch safety switch as well, I dismantled the dash in order to paint the dash and interior panels.
I might have dmged it or unplugged something.

I guess once I ensure proper ground, ill figure out a way to test the switch.
 
  #16  
Old 04-21-2018, 10:18 AM
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I gotta admit , you nailed me !!
I, dumbly assumed ,well if you drove it in there , it should be a minor problem. I had no idea you "got loose" in there ! lol
What ever the case , it is gonna start and run !
To try to answer some of your questions,
If you press the radiator cap down and turn it, it should clear the safety tangs and continue to turn in order to remove it.
 
  #17  
Old 04-21-2018, 10:45 AM
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Now lets get to the starter,
Your vehicle's starter might be different from most due to it having a manual trans.
If you can forward a pix , I will try to confirm the wiring hook up if you have any questions on it. Since you got into the dash I have no idea if anything could be out of place, so we go slowly and take things one at a time , is that ok?

One of the pix with the unknown plugs contains the test plug and aux to do the computer checks.
There is a small test tool made by Thexton that comes with directions and allows you to get codes and run addl tests. I will get the part # for you .
 
  #18  
Old 04-21-2018, 11:00 AM
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The tool is made by Thexton
Phone # 1-800-328-6277
tool #443
FORD ABS/EEC-IV TROUBLE CODE RETRIEVAL TOOL
$12.00

This tool comes with directions , gives codes and dynamic tests etc.
If you can get one ,get it you will appreciate it .

Check it out on their website.
 
  #19  
Old 04-21-2018, 12:15 PM
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It Started! But I dont know why and now its back to doing nothing....
Watch it on this vid, Im all happy, but right after I filmed this, the truck wont start just like before, no matter how hard I push the clutch in...

As for the Code Scanner, I already have this one
Amazon Amazon
I dont know how to use it yet, but I have it.

Any idea how I can test if its the switch? I can find a Clutch Safety Switch anywhere, not on LMC, not on Rock Auto or Napa...

thanks for the tip about the Radiator cap push down to open! ill go fill that now.

So close! yet so far...
 
  #20  
Old 04-21-2018, 01:29 PM
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Glad you got it going.
You might try Ford dealers , one might come up with the clutch safety switch.
You might also try,
Vintage Parts Inc.
Located in Beaver Dam , Wisc.
Phone # 1-877-846-8243

Remember I suggested to connect either a test lite of voltmeter between the small relay terminal and ground. Then turn the key to start , if you get nothing there is a possibility the safety switch might need to be adjusted or replaced.

Now that you have coolant in the engine ;
with the key on and in NEUTRAL you can jump the relay by placing the screwdriver between the small terminal on the relay and the large terminal on the relay that is connected directly to the battery. The relay should close and send power to the starter and with the key on the engine should start and run. All you are doing with the screwdriver is by-passing the power that is supposed to come from the start position of the ign sw.

I hope it is only a misstatement in your last video where you say you have connected the positive post of the battery to the engine ground . You probably meant the negative post,,,,,,,,,,,I hope!
 


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