Hey Guys, I need some help/

What is going on ?
STFTB1 -2.3%

STFTB1S1 -1.6%

They are supposed to be the same sensor

Are we still getting an occasional misfire from cyls 4 &6 ? (Bank 2 problem)

When the throttle body was removed and "cleaned" did any junk get loose to go to bank 2 ?


If there was a problem with leaking injectors, the fuel trim should show that , it does not !

 

Yes same sensor but both were not shown and captured on the same screen, the xx seconds after saemetric scrolled down to the next display it changed.
Even if both are shown on the same screen display on OBDLink MX+, since STFT is real time, the percentage can be changed several times already within one second and that's normal.

 

I appreciate all the comments and I realize 2 things:
-first I’m inexperienced at scanning and exactly what it means

​​​​​​-second I realize that the engine should be hot when doing all these live data

BUT and it’s a big but, is my engine runs perfectly when warm and hot. It’s just the first 2-3 minutes of running after starting from cold.
It always starts but runs poorly like it’s chugging and sounds like it’s missing on more than one cylinder. I had the scanner plugged in when cold to try it. Got codes for MAP sensor , misfires on 2 cylinders. It will continue idle for 2-3 minutes and then smooth out and run perfectly for the rest of the day. If I raise the rpm’s in this initial stage, check engine light comes on.

I’ve replaced the ESM which has both the EGR and MAP sensor in it. (the old ESM acted the same way )

Would/could a MAP sensor cause this cold start issue I’m having. Hard to believe it could cause misfires for 2-3 minutes when cold.

I hope you all are understanding that the problem is as described above. When driving down the road when warm or hot, no misfires, no codes, and no CEL.

 

You can view live data at any time but some parameters like LTFT and STFT are meaningless and misleading when your engine is not in operating temperature. I think you have a little misunderstanding, you don't use the scanner to capture and monitor only the bad moment during the first few minutes on cold start and expect that to pinpoint the problems, and disconnect the scanner after 5 minutes.

Again, key ON engine OFF when pulling codes.
Key ON engine ON when getting live parameters, additionally, engine MUST be hot, very hot. 5 minutes driving your ECT can reach 200, but EOT should take 10 to 15 minutes to reach 200, TFT could take half hour to reach 150.

Can't give you answer yet but bad MAP sensor is possible depending on the test 2 and 3 below, I need the 3 readings I mentioned previously:
1) Make sure your car is in operating temperature, then retrieve the same live parameters you submitted previously, don't leave out LTFT-B1 this time, LTFT values are MOST important.
2) No load, rev to 2500 RPM while idling, same parameters
3) Under load, rev to 2500 RPM while driving and begin around 30 mph, same parameters

You can just plug the scanner in and set it to live data on a cold start, and complete test no. 3 first, of course you don't take meaningless screenshots when it's not ready, then you can drive straight back home or to a parking lot at a shopping mall, and complete test no.2, then turn off engine and key ON, and complete test no.1, all 3 tests in one go. The tests will tell if you have a vacuum leak or bad MAP/MAF or bad fuel system, so that you know what approach to take rather than throwing random parts at your car. Just a single random part might cost more than the foxwell scanner itself already.

Don't forget to pull the Ford's DTCs and post them here.

 

I tried to video the first start this morning. It’s 3 minutes long and you can see what I’ve been complaining about for over a month. I’d post it here if it’s allowed and I knew how. Or I could email it to someone who would give me their email address The chugging initially is apparent and the smoothing out at the end.

 

When the engine is first started oxygen sensor info to the PCM is non existent , that means fuel control is controlled by preprogrammed info in the PCM.

Once the sensors reach operating temp, around 600 degrees F, they start sending info to the PCM to control fuel according to info rec'd from O2 sensors.
Heated O2 sensors have reduced the time before info is sent. With that info , we might be wondering about that preprogrammed info in the PCM.
There is also another fly in the ointment and that is the misfires from cyls 4 & 6.There is also another consideration Is extra air getting to cyls 4 & 6?
Might be a good idea to recheck work reinstalling throttle body, you never know ? Is this what the MAP keeps trying to tell us ?

Something else to think about. If extra air is getting in through a vacuum leak ,when things get warm they expand and the leak is gone.Suppose we digest that info and verify that is not the possible problem, what do you think ?

 

You can't just say you want to get rid of the issues on the first 2 or 3 minutes there are procedures to follow step by step.
Just like you want to do a full mouth implant and find a dentist and you get referred to a periodontist specialist and you are telling the periodontist that you have money and you just want to do the implant right away and complete it right away, and you are told that your jawbone is too weak and not healthy enough to do it right away and you need to do bone grafting first. You can see there is a routine procedure you have to follow, step by step.

The 3 tests I mentioned previously can reveal whether you have a vacuum leak, could be intake manifold gasket or pcv or elsewhere, or bad fuel system, could be fuel injectors, fuel filter or fuel pump, or MAF/MAP. I don't want to say too much at this moment and I'm afraid you just want to throw all these random parts at your car.

 

[QUOTE from hanky:

Something else to think about. If extra air is getting in through a vacuum leak ,when things get warm they expand and the leak is gone.Suppose we digest that info and verify that is not the possible problem, what do you think ?[/QUOTE]


i think you might have something there. I plan to remove the intake manifold again, which I did to replace the plugs and coils ..They had 165K original miles on them. Also replaced EGR/MAP module. I did replace the lower intake gaskets at that time. But did not replace the uppers since I did not separate the two halves. Might have misses something there. Possibly the gaskets between the upper and lower are leaking. Fun project for the weekend.

 

Please,,,,,,,,,, If you are going to remove the intake manifold,, get NEW grommets for the bolts that secure the manifold. They are known to look fine , but still leak , resulting in an unexpected vacuum leak.

 

I don’t see the grommets you refer to on any of the 8 bolts holding the intake manifold on. All is see is the long bolts and the long metal spacers…Where are they and is there a part number and source for them ?